Kindle Talk Forum

[tribble]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

They say in the manual. They say Mobi DRM will not work so it has to be different. If that is not enough someone in the Kindle forum has already purchased a Kindle book and tried to read it with the Windows MobiReader. It detected the book but would not pass the DRM.

Dale

Thats not correct. You just might not know the device ID of the kindle, so you cant register the kindle with any other mobipocket retailer.

It could be though, that the DRM is different, but i doubt it.

[ecccoman]

Kindle's handling of Word Docs is a non-starter for me. I review quite a few Word Docs on my Sony reader when I travel. Can't do that unless I export the documents to Amazon for translation. My employer would be very upset if I exported internal documents to Amazon for translation.

I read their user guide and I don't see a way around it

[slayda]

Originally Posted by Brooks

Just to clear things up...

Kindletalk.com is neither owned by nor affiliated with Amazon.com. We utilize Amazon’s EC2 service to host our forums, which may explain why some users thought we were connected in some way with Amazon.

Kindletalk.com exists simply as an unbiased online community for Kindle users.

Thanks

Unbiased??!!!

[Rocketime]

Originally Posted by ecccoman

Kindle's handling of Word Docs is a non-starter for me. I review quite a few Word Docs on my Sony reader when I travel. Can't do that unless I export the documents to Amazon for translation. My employer would be very upset if I exported internal documents to Amazon for translation.

I read their user guide and I don't see a way around it

This is the major reason I'm sticking with the my 505. I do the same thing as well as drop all my saved emails into word for perusal on my reader at a later date.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

From this discussion I gather that the binary PRC format has not been reverse engineered?

It certainly has. Book Designer can read and convert PRC files so long as they are the original version. Mobi has a new compression method and files in that format has not been decoded but the original is well known. I put a link the wiki to a description. The original Mobi format is PalmDoc with some html constructs added.

Dale

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ecccoman

Kindle's handling of Word Docs is a non-starter for me. I review quite a few Word Docs on my Sony reader when I travel. Can't do that unless I export the documents to Amazon for translation. My employer would be very upset if I exported internal documents to Amazon for translation.

I read their user guide and I don't see a way around it

It is really easy. Just get MobiReader for the PC and it will convert your files to mobi format which will be read natively on the Kindle.

Dale

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by tribble

Thats not correct. You just might not know the device ID of the kindle, so you cant register the kindle with any other mobipocket retailer.

It could be though, that the DRM is different, but i doubt it.

What is not correct in what I said? If it can't be read then it is different by definition. What the difference is was not stated in my post. It is possible that the device id method is different and the differences are small but it won't work.

Dale

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It certainly has. Book Designer can read and convert PRC files so long as they are the original version. Mobi has a new compression method and files in that format has not been decoded but the original is well known. I put a link the wiki to a description. The original Mobi format is PalmDoc with some html constructs added.

Dale

Thanks, that's good to hear. I was investigating the feasibility of writing an open source converter and having to reverse engineer another binary format would make it beyond my levels of ambition.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

If it can't be read then it is different by definition.

Weeeeell ... I wouldn't consider it to be a different file type if the only reason that it can't be read is because it's not registered to that device's PID. It's kinda like if I password protected an MSWord file and sent it to you, you couldn't open it without the password, but it's not because you computer can't handle the file or that the file is different, you just don't have the key to it.

For instance, John and Jane (hypothetical people) both have Sony Readers, Jane downloads Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy from the Sony ConnStore, but while John can load Jane's copy onto his Reader, he can't open it there because Jane's copy is keyed to her account, and John's Reader is not. The DRM has prevented one from opening the same on identical hardware because the file is registered to a different account.

I'm a bit shaky on how mobi's DRM works, but I gather that the files are locked to specific devices by way of the device ID key. So in order to read a DRMed Mobi file on a device (such as a Cybook) I would have to register that device with the seller and download a file that is keyed to that device.

We've got pretty good evidence that AZW files are mobi files with a different extension -- I wouldn't say conclusive evidence yet, but pretty good evidence.

What we don't know is if the DRM that they're using for Kindle follows the same scheme as what's used on mobi files. They say the DRM won't work, but Marketing folks have been known to be ... less than entirely accurate, shall we say? They may just want us all to believe that it won't work, or it may really not work. If it in fact is not a different DRM system, then all we'd need to read a mobi file from say, fictionwise, on a Kindle would be to suss out the device ID for that Kindle, register it with fictionwise, download a mobi book that's keyed to that file, change the extension to AZW, and load it up.

That's the theory, anyway, and it fits the few observed facts we have. Whether it will actually work that way or not and how tricky getting a Kindle's device ID might be, those things we don't know.

[igorsk]

When I get mine I'll see about making it work with Mobi books. Though I'm not sure if I'll be able to share the details here because of MobileRead's DRM policy...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by NatCh

I'm a bit shaky on how mobi's DRM works, but I gather that the files are locked to specific devices by way of the device ID key. So in order to read a DRMed Mobi file on a device (such as a Cybook) I would have to register that device with the seller and download a file that is keyed to that device.

That's correct. Every Mobi device has a unique ID - a 10 character alphanumeric string called a "PID" (I'm not sure what the "P" stands for!). When you buy a Mobi book, you enter the PID on the web site you're buying from and the web site encrypts the book for your specific device. You're generally allowed to register up to four different PIDs on a site, and the book can then be read on any of those devices.

If the Kindle does use standard MobiPocket encryption (which seems highly likely), then the odds are that it just has an internal PID which is being used for the encryption. If someone finds a method of getting at this internal PID, it could then be entered at any MobiPocket bookstore to generate a book which could be read on the Kindle.

What probably CANNOT be done, however, is to read Kindle books on other MobiPocket devices, because the book encryption is done by the seller (ie Amazon) and there would be no way to enter the PIDs of other Mobi devices on Amazon, unless they specifically decide to open up that capability.