Oh god, how do I rollback 2.3.2? - Page 2

Gaffer · 01-02-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latepaul

By default 1.9.17 put recommended reads (i.e. "shop related stuff") in the 'carousel' at the bottom with an option to change it to your shortlist (and something else which I can't remember). Even so there was quite the outcry against it, and quite the outcry when it was subsequently removed. You can please some of the people some of the time...

The three options for display on the bottom of the home screen in 1.9.17 are Featured, New Releases and Shortlist. The key is that you have an option - by selecting Shortlist, you can avoid the marketing crappola.

dakini · 01-02-2013, 05:22 PM

i've got 2.1.5 on my touch right now, and i have to admit ... i had to just power it back on to think what the exact shopping stuff was that was on the homescreen.

right after you upgrade, you always notice the new stuff. which is usually related to getting us to buy books.

but after a couple weeks of a new homescreen layout, i think most of us normally tune out the marketing stuff.

i'd remembered there was a wishlist in the bottom cm of the screen, but i'd forgotten the "Discover" at the top of the screen. i just never use it. so it's a blind spot ...

i say this to recommend to the OP and others that upgrades feel strange/annoying/clunky at first ... and then, when you see which "features" you will use and which you won't, bit it's pretty easy to find yourself wind up ignoring the stuff you don't pay attention to, like their recommendations.

Anjohl · 01-03-2013, 10:46 AM

I appreciate your siggestions Dakini, and agree to a point, but my reader has to replicatr a book.reading experience, and books don't show ads when you open co

PeterT · 01-03-2013, 10:51 AM

Um... I hate to say some books do. I've seen many books that contains ads for other material by the author, even some that had pages of ads bound into the middle of the book.

Anjohl · 01-03-2013, 07:21 PM

Justify selling yourself for nothing in return however you want. I bought the reader, *I* decide if it advertises to me.

davidfor · 01-03-2013, 07:21 PM

And lots of books have pages listing books from the same publisher at the back. The current Kobo firmware has, to me, minimal and easily ignored "advertising" that does not impact the actual reading experience at all. It slightly impinges on the "what book will I read next", but not much.

justywusty · 01-03-2013, 07:51 PM

Holy crap you guys are a little too picky! Spend more time reading and you'll barely ever see the home screen...

Anjohl · 01-03-2013, 08:30 PM

I want my ereader to show what I have on it exvlusively, and noone has the right to deny me that preference. If kobos algorithim made any sense maybe i'd be more conducive to their advertising, but not likely, since no rebate ogf the cost of the device was offered.

dakini · 01-03-2013, 08:36 PM

actually, when you set up the reader you agree to kobo's terms of service ... not kobo agreeing to your terms of service.

so the "i get what i want" argument isn't what the legal agreement binding you and kobo says (or the same with any other piece of electronics, not just kobo, not just ereaders). this is why people turn to jailbreaking ... to make it customized to their wishes, outside the EULA. and why that's still being legally decided in many countries.

davidfor · 01-03-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjohl

I want my ereader to show what I have on it exvlusively, and noone has the right to deny me that preference. If kobos algorithim made any sense maybe i'd be more conducive to their advertising, but not likely, since no rebate ogf the cost of the device was offered.

At no time do he Kobo devices shove anything at you. You have to make a conscious decision to look at the books they want to sell you. If you never touch the Bookstore link, you will never see a book you haven't put onto the device.

As to their recommendations algorithm, if you actually buy books from them it improves. Due to some promo codes, I bought a lot of books in December. At the beginning of the month, the recommendations where rubbish. Right now, every single one of the books on the recommendations is something I would consider. At least, if I was in a bookshop, I would pick them up and read the back cover. Marking books as "Not interested" helps but buying has a bigger impact.

jusmee · 01-03-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Pretty sure that'll use more battery than letting it sleep all day.

No, I do the same, you save lots of battery over just sleep mode.

Anjohl · 01-04-2013, 08:47 AM

Anyway, this has derailed severely. The version I have on it now has almost no store related items on the front. Thanks to those that helped.

Gaffer · 01-04-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

At no time do he Kobo devices shove anything at you. You have to make a conscious decision to look at the books they want to sell you. If you never touch the Bookstore link, you will never see a book you haven't put onto the device.

As to their recommendations algorithm, if you actually buy books from them it improves. Due to some promo codes, I bought a lot of books in December. At the beginning of the month, the recommendations where rubbish. Right now, every single one of the books on the recommendations is something I would consider. At least, if I was in a bookshop, I would pick them up and read the back cover. Marking books as "Not interested" helps but buying has a bigger impact.

By that logic, when I try to watch a TV show and they pop up graphics advertising other shows it shouldn't irritate me either - I don't have to go watch those other shows.

They say you can boil a frog to death in a pan of water by increasing the heat in very small increments, so small that the frog never reacts and jumps out. Consumers are like that frog. I remember when people started signing up for cable TV because that way they could watch without commercials; now we pay the monthly fee and see 10 times as many commercials per hour as we saw on free TV when I was young.

As for my Kobo, as I explained earlier one of my reasons for purchasing it was that I didn't have to see marketing material on it, or pay a higher price for a unit that didn't show it. When they turned the water temperature up in 1.9.17 and I had to change my setting to Short List, I went along. When they turned it up another notch so that I'd have to see it every time I viewed my home page, I jumped out of the pan.

ottdmk · 01-05-2013, 12:21 AM

Your analogy is flawed. There are no ads on the home screen of any Kobo device running 2.3.1. There is a link called "Discover". That is not an ad. This is significantly different from pop-up graphics used in television, which are most definitely ads.

There was a brief period of time when the carousel defaulted to showing "Recommended Reads", which was definitely advertising. Those days are long over.

Also, I am unaware of any era when cable tv was completely without commercials. Cable has always carried OTA signals; those signals have always carried commercials. I'm also unaware of any paid station (those that receive revenue directly from cable companies) that accept paid advertising. They do in-house advertising, true, but that is a fairly different beast.

Gaffer · 01-05-2013, 03:27 AM

Analogies needn't be exact; one definition is "partial similarity". The point of my analogy was that marketing becomes increasingly heavy and invasive over time, and I think we've all seen that. You do remember when ads didn't pop up during shows at all, right?

My reference to cable is to discussions I remember back in the 60s when people argued over whether anyone would be crazy enough to pay for television at all. The answer was generally that it would be worth it because then you wouldn't have to watch commercials. And cable did have far less commercials than the over-the-air networks, even as recently as 15 years ago. AMC, for example, came with my basic cable and showed entire movies without commercial interruption (they did have commercials before and after). Then they started putting one commercial break halfway through, and over time you got more and more.

The whole world is like that, and it has bugged me for ages. I remember joking at one time that people would eventually get commercials tatooed on their heads; that actually happened some years back. Then there was the deal where teachers were getting free use of cars, with the catch being they had to park them at school and the cars were painted over with advertising. It's getting more insane year by year, and no end in sight.

As for marketing on the Kobo main screen, I haven't personally seen what it looks like post 1.9.17 so can't argue that. I do know that the default option on 1.9.17 put suggested books on the screen, and the orginal poster for this thread talked as if he's seeing unwanted marketing in 2.3.0, unless I misunderstood him.

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01-02-2013, 05:22 PM	#17
dakini not "it" Posts: 236 Karma: 1687996 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: Kindle 7th gen	i've got 2.1.5 on my touch right now, and i have to admit ... i had to just power it back on to think what the exact shopping stuff was that was on the homescreen. right after you upgrade, you always notice the new stuff. which is usually related to getting us to buy books. but after a couple weeks of a new homescreen layout, i think most of us normally tune out the marketing stuff. i'd remembered there was a wishlist in the bottom cm of the screen, but i'd forgotten the "Discover" at the top of the screen. i just never use it. so it's a blind spot ... i say this to recommend to the OP and others that upgrades feel strange/annoying/clunky at first ... and then, when you see which "features" you will use and which you won't, bit it's pretty easy to find yourself wind up ignoring the stuff you don't pay attention to, like their recommendations.

01-03-2013, 10:46 AM	#18
Anjohl Zealot Posts: 105 Karma: 559568 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kobo Touch	I appreciate your siggestions Dakini, and agree to a point, but my reader has to replicatr a book.reading experience, and books don't show ads when you open co

01-03-2013, 10:51 AM	#19
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,172 Karma: 73448616 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Nexus 7, Clara, Touch, Tolino EPOS	Um... I hate to say some books do. I've seen many books that contains ads for other material by the author, even some that had pages of ads bound into the middle of the book.

01-03-2013, 07:21 PM	#20
Anjohl Zealot Posts: 105 Karma: 559568 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kobo Touch	Justify selling yourself for nothing in return however you want. I bought the reader, I decide if it advertises to me.

01-03-2013, 07:21 PM	#21
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,907 Karma: 47303748 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	And lots of books have pages listing books from the same publisher at the back. The current Kobo firmware has, to me, minimal and easily ignored "advertising" that does not impact the actual reading experience at all. It slightly impinges on the "what book will I read next", but not much.

01-03-2013, 07:51 PM	#22
justywusty Enthusiast Posts: 31 Karma: 68778 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: kobo touch	Holy crap you guys are a little too picky! Spend more time reading and you'll barely ever see the home screen...

01-03-2013, 08:30 PM	#23
Anjohl Zealot Posts: 105 Karma: 559568 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kobo Touch	I want my ereader to show what I have on it exvlusively, and noone has the right to deny me that preference. If kobos algorithim made any sense maybe i'd be more conducive to their advertising, but not likely, since no rebate ogf the cost of the device was offered.

01-03-2013, 08:36 PM	#24
dakini not "it" Posts: 236 Karma: 1687996 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: Kindle 7th gen	actually, when you set up the reader you agree to kobo's terms of service ... not kobo agreeing to your terms of service. so the "i get what i want" argument isn't what the legal agreement binding you and kobo says (or the same with any other piece of electronics, not just kobo, not just ereaders). this is why people turn to jailbreaking ... to make it customized to their wishes, outside the EULA. and why that's still being legally decided in many countries.

01-04-2013, 08:47 AM	#27
Anjohl Zealot Posts: 105 Karma: 559568 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kobo Touch	Anyway, this has derailed severely. The version I have on it now has almost no store related items on the front. Thanks to those that helped.

01-05-2013, 12:21 AM	#29
ottdmk Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 3765734 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Libra 2, Lenovo Tab M10 FHD Plus, Lenovo Tab M8 HD	Your analogy is flawed. There are no ads on the home screen of any Kobo device running 2.3.1. There is a link called "Discover". That is not an ad. This is significantly different from pop-up graphics used in television, which are most definitely ads. There was a brief period of time when the carousel defaulted to showing "Recommended Reads", which was definitely advertising. Those days are long over. Also, I am unaware of any era when cable tv was completely without commercials. Cable has always carried OTA signals; those signals have always carried commercials. I'm also unaware of any paid station (those that receive revenue directly from cable companies) that accept paid advertising. They do in-house advertising, true, but that is a fairly different beast.

01-05-2013, 03:27 AM	#30
Gaffer Member Posts: 19 Karma: 91657 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kobo Touch	Analogies needn't be exact; one definition is "partial similarity". The point of my analogy was that marketing becomes increasingly heavy and invasive over time, and I think we've all seen that. You do remember when ads didn't pop up during shows at all, right? My reference to cable is to discussions I remember back in the 60s when people argued over whether anyone would be crazy enough to pay for television at all. The answer was generally that it would be worth it because then you wouldn't have to watch commercials. And cable did have far less commercials than the over-the-air networks, even as recently as 15 years ago. AMC, for example, came with my basic cable and showed entire movies without commercial interruption (they did have commercials before and after). Then they started putting one commercial break halfway through, and over time you got more and more. The whole world is like that, and it has bugged me for ages. I remember joking at one time that people would eventually get commercials tatooed on their heads; that actually happened some years back. Then there was the deal where teachers were getting free use of cars, with the catch being they had to park them at school and the cars were painted over with advertising. It's getting more insane year by year, and no end in sight. As for marketing on the Kobo main screen, I haven't personally seen what it looks like post 1.9.17 so can't argue that. I do know that the default option on 1.9.17 put suggested books on the screen, and the orginal poster for this thread talked as if he's seeing unwanted marketing in 2.3.0, unless I misunderstood him.