Classic When will Barnes and Nobles go out of business? - Page 2

desertgrandma · 12-07-2009, 06:11 PM

markbot, I wish you would have posted this with your first post.

Puts an entirely different spin on how to read it.

You have a good point, but if a paper bookstore like B&N should go out of business, I think we're in worse trouble than we thing.

I see no lack of business in my local store.

Propheous · 12-07-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

B&N has very high operating leverage and makes small margins. This means that if their business declines slightly, the losses will be magnified.

Your argument is based on the idea that the digital market will take away from the physical market. Which, all though a sound argument precludes them from entering into that market. B&N is in the market and thus lost revenue from physical sales should by your logic equate to gained revenue in electronic sales. With out looking at any numbers I am going to be comfortable saying they receive a higher return on electronic purchases then on physical purchases as the labor and deliver costs are significantly lower. So in the end if B&N lost a majority of its physical patronage to its electronic business then it would in fact over time, after the initial hit of store closings, become better off in a business sense.

markbot · 12-07-2009, 06:16 PM

Not all the sales that B&N loses to digital books will be made up for by the Nook. Most of the lost sales will probably go to Amazon.com and other ebook makers.

They would have to close stores to make up the difference. When they close stores they will take large losses. They will probably try some different strategies to revitalize the core book stores....but this will probably fail and just prolong losses.

From their annual report, it looks like store closing costs are between 500K and 1M per store.

Propheous · 12-07-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

Not all the sales that B&N loses to digital books will be made up for by the Nook. Most of the lost sales will probably go to Amazon.com and other ebook makers.

This is not true at all and based on equally false assumptions

We can not predict who will get the business. Amazon will lose customers to B&N, Sony will lose customers to Amazon, B&N will lost customers to Sony.

Right now we have no way of telling were the market share on electronic books will go. The nook is the first real NA competitor to the kindle. You may be right, and you may not be right. However even if they lose a share it does not equate to going out of business.

jasonkchapman · 12-07-2009, 06:38 PM

Actually, B&N's stores can work to a significant advantage. If they leverage the nook's in-store potential correctly, they can make digital sales and retain their b&m traffic. That gives them the opportunity to make the more profitable sales of impulse items instead of just losing money on e-books.

I remember a discussion on MR a year or two ago about the potential advantages of a combined digital/b&m approach to e-books. It might have been in relation to Borders and Sony partnering up, but I don't remember exactly. Anyway, if they can keep store traffic up, they should be fine.

Connallmac · 12-07-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

Actually, B&N's stores can work to a significant advantage. If they leverage the nook's in-store potential correctly, they can make digital sales and retain their b&m traffic. That gives them the opportunity to make the more profitable sales of impulse items instead of just losing money on e-books.

That seems like a pretty big if to me, given the usually high cost of retail space. I think their timing may be good, vis a vis the upcoming shrinkage of the Walden Books arm of Borders, and the generally teetering condition of the entire Borders chain. It will be interesting to see if B&N can capitalize on this and/or if this opens some space back up for smaller independents.

javajoe96 · 12-07-2009, 09:20 PM

They are not going out of business anytime soon. Come on, this is not serious topic. While more and more books are being digitized, most people do not want to give up on owning a physical copy, they can hold, share, keep, display, collect or sell. Then there are those who do not shop on the internet or want something right now and not wait for the time it takes to ship. And while that might not make up the people on this group, it is a large segment of the population.

bminata · 12-07-2009, 10:13 PM

I hope they go on forever.. as well as Amazon.. And Borders.. and all the others.

Fuzzykinz · 12-08-2009, 03:13 AM

There is a vital point all of you seemed to have missed...

As of right now it is VERY hard to walk in to a coffee shop attatched to Amazon and sit down with your Mac, listen to Indie Rock and and sip on a grande-grande-double-shot-caramel-snobby-upper-middle-american-latte all while looking down upon everybody else in the room.

So until Amazon can find a way to attach a horrible coffee shop to themselves somehow... BN has a great advantage.

gigercounter · 12-08-2009, 03:20 AM

When will Amazon go out of business ?

kindlekitten · 12-08-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigercounter

When will Amazon go out of business ?

just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water

Connallmac · 12-08-2009, 06:34 AM

Not_A_Crook · 12-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connallmac

This.. Made my morning.

Connallmac · 12-08-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not_A_Crook

This.. Made my morning.

Glad you enjoyed!

WT Sharpe · 12-08-2009, 04:51 PM

Being as my Nook is scheduled to ship Friday, I'm hoping B&N will be around until the return of the Great Prophet Zarquon.

View Poll Results: Wnen will Barnes and Nobles go out of business?
Within 1 year	6	5.08%
1 to 5 years	18	15.25%
5 to 10 years	13	11.02%
10 to 20 years	11	9.32%
Never	70	59.32%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2009, 06:16 PM	#18
markbot Guru Posts: 612 Karma: 7511929 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York, NY Device: Amazon Kindle Paperwhite 2	Not all the sales that B&N loses to digital books will be made up for by the Nook. Most of the lost sales will probably go to Amazon.com and other ebook makers. They would have to close stores to make up the difference. When they close stores they will take large losses. They will probably try some different strategies to revitalize the core book stores....but this will probably fail and just prolong losses. From their annual report, it looks like store closing costs are between 500K and 1M per store. Last edited by markbot; 12-07-2009 at 06:25 PM.

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12-07-2009, 06:11 PM	#16
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462841 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	markbot, I wish you would have posted this with your first post. Puts an entirely different spin on how to read it. You have a good point, but if a paper bookstore like B&N should go out of business, I think we're in worse trouble than we thing. I see no lack of business in my local store.

12-07-2009, 06:38 PM	#20
jasonkchapman Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 2347 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC Device: Sony Reader, nook, Droid, nookColor, nookTablet	Actually, B&N's stores can work to a significant advantage. If they leverage the nook's in-store potential correctly, they can make digital sales and retain their b&m traffic. That gives them the opportunity to make the more profitable sales of impulse items instead of just losing money on e-books. I remember a discussion on MR a year or two ago about the potential advantages of a combined digital/b&m approach to e-books. It might have been in relation to Borders and Sony partnering up, but I don't remember exactly. Anyway, if they can keep store traffic up, they should be fine.

12-07-2009, 09:20 PM	#22
javajoe96 Member Posts: 22 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Saint Louis, MO Device: Barnes & Noble Nook, Sony PRS-700	They are not going out of business anytime soon. Come on, this is not serious topic. While more and more books are being digitized, most people do not want to give up on owning a physical copy, they can hold, share, keep, display, collect or sell. Then there are those who do not shop on the internet or want something right now and not wait for the time it takes to ship. And while that might not make up the people on this group, it is a large segment of the population.

12-07-2009, 10:13 PM	#23
bminata Connoisseur Posts: 87 Karma: 6366 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bandung, Indonesia Device: KPW, KFHD, K3, K2, iPad	I hope they go on forever.. as well as Amazon.. And Borders.. and all the others.

12-08-2009, 03:13 AM	#24
Fuzzykinz Lover of things fuzzeh Posts: 40 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Device: BN nook, iPod touch second gen	There is a vital point all of you seemed to have missed... As of right now it is VERY hard to walk in to a coffee shop attatched to Amazon and sit down with your Mac, listen to Indie Rock and and sip on a grande-grande-double-shot-caramel-snobby-upper-middle-american-latte all while looking down upon everybody else in the room. So until Amazon can find a way to attach a horrible coffee shop to themselves somehow... BN has a great advantage.

12-08-2009, 03:20 AM	#25
gigercounter Banned Posts: 43 Karma: 320 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none yet	When will Amazon go out of business ?

12-08-2009, 06:34 AM	#27
Connallmac Transplanted NYer Posts: 455 Karma: 520286 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Eastern IN Device: Kindle Fire HD 8.9", Kindle Fire HD 7", Kindle Touch

12-08-2009, 04:51 PM	#30
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,073 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	Being as my Nook is scheduled to ship Friday, I'm hoping B&N will be around until the return of the Great Prophet Zarquon.