Expansion of Book Uploads for the iLiad & for other devices

[yvanleterrible]

Yeah! I know but I'm interested in what Lauzon has to say, he's got good ideas on DRM.

[NatCh]

Oh, I think he'll happily share them in either place.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Which is why I suggested handling them through FeedBooks which creates them on the fly and can re-create them for other sizes, eliminating the human effort from the equation altogether.

But requires that FeedBooks be changed to support the device.

Originally Posted by NatCh

Yes, he's working on handling other outputs, but it's not a finished product yet.

Then I'll reserve my final judgement for later. But, right now, FeedBooks brings me no value.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Hadrien

Yes and we're going to use XML for this. But most XML-based formats are purely based on presentation and nothing else (that's what I was pointing to, using XML in my previous post).

You seem to be confused about what XML is.

Basically, XML is a language that describes data. Pretty much any data.

I suggest "Learning XML" by Erik T. Ray (O'Reilly). Many people at work have used this book to get a good feel of what XML is and what it can do.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

What's your idea of the best format we should have? Is there one now you'd see over others?

XML would be the most universal. The problem will be to create a schema that can support everything we need.

Right now, I keep my eBooks in Open Document Format. I use OpenOffice to quickly and easily convert them to whatever format I want them in (PDF for my iLiad, HTML for when I want to play with MobiPocket, PalmDOC for my Palm, etc.).

Since Open Doc is becoming the word processing standard, perhaps that should be the eBook format of choice as well.

[yvanleterrible]

There you go !
Then we should store all the books being crafted here to XML and have links to the translators we need for such and such device.

[Hadrien]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

You seem to be confused about what XML is.

Basically, XML is a language that describes data. Pretty much any data.

I suggest "Learning XML" by Erik T. Ray (O'Reilly). Many people at work have used this book to get a good feel of what XML is and what it can do.

I parse and create XML everyday so no, I'm not confused at all. And you're really confused about how Feedbooks work: you can create custom PDF files, which means that there's no need for us to change anything on the website if we need to support more devices that are PDF enabled. We can add templates, which means that they're the files once generated are stored in cache and there's no need for the user to customize anything. But as long as the device is PDF enabled, we can generate the right book for it.

Actually Feedbooks work exactly like what yvanleterrible describded:

We should have the base books cleaned prepared and stored in HTML. When you click on a book choice a dialog box asks you what format you need and a universal translator coughs it up for your download.

We're still in beta test, that's why there's only PDF supported, and we're not using HTML because HTML is pure presentation. We're using a database which would be 100% similar to using XML.

In my previous post I was just pointing to the fact that LRF, Mobipocket etc... use XML purely for presentation, not semantic information.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Then we should store all the books being crafted here to XML and have links to the translators we need for such and such device.

You are still thinking along the lines of "every device should have their own close, proprietary format that they support" and that we need to translate from a common format to that closed, proprietary format.

That's what we basically have today - with everyone disagreeing on what the common format is.

What you need to be thinking is "This is the common format for all eBooks. If your device doesn't support it - and support it well - then I won't buy your device." You should also be thinking along the lines of "eBooks that aren't in the common format aren't worth buying."

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Then you should be able to provide eBooks in a non-restricted format just as easily as you can in PDF.



All closed, proprietary formats are worthless.

Then why are you here? Other then text, HTML, or RTF, it's all closed and proprietary which you seem to have a sever dislike for. What binary ebook format do you like if any?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

And when the next eBook reader comes out that doesn't support any of the PDF eBook sizes, all the work you did becomes useless.



I do understand. But I also understand that as PDF (or any other locked down format) gains users, it makes it that much harder for a standard eBook format to be created.

Do you honestly think that the Sony Reader size PDF won't be viewable on the next generation eink reader? Because the Sony Reader size is small enough while it might not be optimal due to being small, it will be very clearly readable and usable on any next gen eink device that supports PDF.

[RWood]

rlauzon, as one that has created many of the books in the Sony upload/download section I do keep the originals in other forms. Sometimes one title will be in several forms. We create these titles in LRF because it gives the most flexibility to the end user. Feedbooks does an excellent job of creating PDF versions and in the future I will be adding a lot of the books I have created here to the library there.

I do find it amusing that for all of your condemnation of the PDF format that you admit to using it yourself.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Right now, I keep my eBooks in Open Document Format. I use OpenOffice to quickly and easily convert them to whatever format I want them in (PDF for my iLiad, HTML for when I want to play with MobiPocket, PalmDOC for my Palm, etc.).

This sounds like the same reason that I chose RTF to release my books in, so people could convert them as they wish.

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Since Open Doc is becoming the word processing standard, perhaps that should be the eBook format of choice as well.

I have as yet not tried Open Doc format (but I'm still using W2k and Word 2k for a lot of my conversion work). I can't address whether it is in fact becoming the standard WP format, but if it is, I'm all for using it as I use RTF, to give people freedom of choice.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by RWood

I do find it amusing that for all of your condemnation of the PDF format that you admit to using it yourself.

Yes, I find it ironic myself. But that's the only format that is useful on the iLiad right now.

But that just reinforces my point: If vendors think that PDF is "the eBook standard" they will make devices that support it - to the exclusion of other, better eBook formats. And the more momentum formats like PDF have, the harder it will be to move to a standard eBook format when one becomes available.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Do you honestly think that the Sony Reader size PDF won't be viewable on the next generation eink reader?

A Sony Reader formatted PDF is not displayable on my Palm, my cell phone, my portable video player. On my iLiad, it will look like a large print old-man's book (i.e. not a fun read).

[TadW]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

A Sony Reader formatted PDF is not displayable on my Palm, my cell phone, my portable video player. On my iLiad, it will look like a large print old-man's book (i.e. not a fun read).

But they look lovely on a Sony Reader. And I think this is the whole point of having a dedicated upload section. Simply click on the attachment, sync it with the Connect software, and voila, you got a wonderfully styled, perfectly dimensioned new e-book on your device.

So... let's have dedicated sections for popular e-readers, such as the Reader and iLiad, and let's have one section for multi-formats.