Content Will it be folders?? - Page 2

mdibella · 11-22-2009, 08:37 AM

I'm pleased to see this but I'm not going to get too excited about something that may arrive in 'the first half of next year'.

Jonas777 · 11-22-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdibella

I'm pleased to see this but I'm not going to get too excited about something that may arrive in 'the first half of next year'.

I agree, such statements often implies that it will be delivered around june 30.

But I think it is great news anyway. I really can't understand why folders were not in it from the beginning.

Sheikspeare · 11-22-2009, 11:45 PM

I'm frankly sceptical. Yes, it could be any time till June 30, by which time a number of rival products will have emerged. Also, strictly speaking there's no promise of folders, just a solution to manage libraries.

How about if they had said they would release a highly integrated folder system by Christmas -- that's what I was naively hoping for! Instead it sounds like some half-baked "solution" that will come out some time next year!

Daithi · 11-23-2009, 09:50 AM

I had the same reaction as a couple of posters here when I heard that Amazon's solution wouldn't be available until the first half of next year, and I also would have prefered to have heard exactly what is was they were planning for a solution. If it was folders then why didn't they come out and say so?

With all that said, I still think this is a major announcement. Next year is less than a month and half away, so an announcement that says we will have something in 6 to 7 months is great news. Plus, if it is not folders then it is probably a system that allows us to add tags to books and then search on the tags. We've discussed the merits of tags vs. folders here on Mobileread in the past and many people seemed to have prefered a tagging system (personally I'd like both).

My biggest surprise was that this announcement hasn't generated more excitement. It seems like it has been ages that we have been asking for folders/tags, and when Amazon announces they've been listening, and will give us what we want, there is a big collective *YAWN*. I would have figured this would have been a hot topic and would have been placed on the front page (I requested it and the request was denied). Maybe it was Amazon's low key way of announcing the change or the lack of specifics. I don't know, but what I do know is that I have over 1,000 books on my Kindle and I badly need a way to manage them. Thank you, Amazon.

Amazon announcing that they are going to provide me that ability is like a Christmas present even if I don't receive it for another 6 months, especially when you consider that I don't have to pay for it. It looks like Amazon is providing this upgrade for free and as far as I am concerned that makes me appreciate Amazon even more. Many companies would have just withheld this feature until they released the next version of their ereader.

Sheikspeare · 11-23-2009, 03:19 PM

Daithi,

The proof will be in the pudding!

TallMomof2 · 11-24-2009, 09:36 AM

I wonder how it will be implemented? Unless Amazon returns to the K1 file management where you could select multiple items to move or delete, it's going to be cumbersome working on one ebook at a time. Folders would probably allow management via the PC but there would still be a need for an onboard implementaion system.

Still, this is great news and can't wait to see the solution.

poohbear_nc · 11-24-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

I had the same reaction as a couple of posters here when I heard that Amazon's solution wouldn't be available until the first half of next year, and I also would have prefered to have heard exactly what is was they were planning for a solution. If it was folders then why didn't they come out and say so?

With all that said, I still think this is a major announcement. Next year is less than a month and half away, so an announcement that says we will have something in 6 to 7 months is great news. Plus, if it is not folders then it is probably a system that allows us to add tags to books and then search on the tags. We've discussed the merits of tags vs. folders here on Mobileread in the past and many people seemed to have prefered a tagging system (personally I'd like both).

My biggest surprise was that this announcement hasn't generated more excitement. It seems like it has been ages that we have been asking for folders/tags, and when Amazon announces they've been listening, and will give us what we want, there is a big collective *YAWN*. I would have figured this would have been a hot topic and would have been placed on the front page (I requested it and the request was denied). Maybe it was Amazon's low key way of announcing the change or the lack of specifics. I don't know, but what I do know is that I have over 1,000 books on my Kindle and I badly need a way to manage them. Thank you, Amazon.
Amazon announcing that they are going to provide me that ability is like a Christmas present even if I don't receive it for another 6 months, especially when you consider that I don't have to pay for it. It looks like Amazon is providing this upgrade for free and as far as I am concerned that makes me appreciate Amazon even more. Many companies would have just withheld this feature until they released the next version of their ereader.

To be honest, I think folks just got tired of asking for folders, or even thinking about them - since this issue never seemed to be important to Amazon. Hence the lack of enthusiasm, belief, or planning to use whatever system is offered by Amazon. If the solution actually works, or is really nifty, you might see a resurgence of interest.

Ea · 12-03-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg4ojj

Does anyone have Santa's address? He's an influential person....maybe he could talk to Amazon for a December 25th delivery?

Julemanden (Santa Claus)
Box 1615
3900 Nuuk
Greenland

fugazied · 12-03-2009, 05:21 PM

I find tagging more useful than bookmarking/folders nowadays. After using tagging in firefox for organising bookmarks I've realised it's THE way to organize data.

Slapping on genre and author tags would be pretty effective. Need advanced tagging features!

Kali Yuga · 12-03-2009, 06:24 PM

Categorization options will be helpful.

But for organizational purposes, folders would suck. If you wanted to have one book in more than one category, you'd have to put it in more than one folder, which would a) be an organizational nightmare, b) clog up your Kindle with duplicates, c) each copy would have its own notes, last spot read, i.e. it would screw up syncing via Whispernet.

I'm not glad that Amazon dropped the ball on some type of category setup, but folders aren't the answer.

Daithi · 12-03-2009, 07:04 PM

A typical tagging/category implementation would work something like this -- you select a file/ebook from the Kindle list of books, select an option that you want to add a tag, and then enter the text of that tag with the Kindle's keyboard. You would need to do this for every book to which you want to add a tag. This can take a fair amount of time if you have over a thousand books.

One of the advantageous of folders is that they are easy to manage using existing PC technology. I can use standard techniques, such as clicking the first file in a list and then use Shift-Click to select the last file as well as those in between, and now I can just drag and drop those files into a folder. It is much quicker to manage than are tags. Furthermore, Amazon uses auxillary files to keep track of notes, last spot read, etc. these files can continue to remain in the root directory so that two files with the same name and size would use the same auxillary file.

Personally, I'd like to have both options, but I'd be happy with either option.

phenomshel · 12-03-2009, 11:23 PM

Believe it or not (and I'm pretty incredulous here myself), to be fair, the more I use Kindle for PC, the more I begin to understand why some people don't see this as necessary. I love my folders on my EZ Reader, but being able to sort by title or author or date also works a lot better than I thought it would. I don't, of course, have a thousand books in my Kindle for PC app (give me a year though...*grin*), and maybe if I did I'd find it a nightmare. Anyway, I'm still excited to see what the new system will be.

ttf · 12-05-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Categorization options will be helpful.

But for organizational purposes, folders would suck. If you wanted to have one book in more than one category, you'd have to put it in more than one folder, which would a) be an organizational nightmare, b) clog up your Kindle with duplicates, c) each copy would have its own notes, last spot read, i.e. it would screw up syncing via Whispernet.

But let's remember: Folders are there already, supported by the Kindle Operating System: Unix directories.

And I can use them right now.
In fact I have subfolders under the "documents" directory on my KindleDX, like "documents/books" and "documents/PDF". Even one more level down like "documents/PDF/Redbooks" and I have put my books and pdfs into those.
It's just that the Kindle *DISPLAYS* them all in a "flat" sequence.

So an important part of folder support is inherently there, already.

The display function *COULD* then work with "logical folders" and symbolic links. That way you could have have one book in several folders. But that's speculation...

Ea · 12-05-2009, 01:18 PM

If the Kindle supported tags/categories, then all Kindle books should also at least be tagged correctly. Or even better, users should be able to add and edit their own categories. Perhaps Kindle for PC is a step in this direction. I can understand if it's not just snapping the fingers to implement it.

Personally I would like tags. I can live with a flat list, but it would be nice to have at least folder support, or better, tagging.

WookieReader · 12-05-2009, 11:18 PM

I like their latest upgrade, PDF is better and now flows if you convert.

The folders issue came up just now, as I got on the forum to figure out how to organize all my PDF docs. "Flat" is correct and very frustrating. I am still in the 'return' period on the DX and wondered if anyone else out there does folders better?

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11-22-2009, 08:37 AM	#16
mdibella Groupie Posts: 193 Karma: 1107 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Infinite Kindles, Occasional Sony's	I'm pleased to see this but I'm not going to get too excited about something that may arrive in 'the first half of next year'.

11-22-2009, 11:45 PM	#18
Sheikspeare Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 290 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: PR-505 / Kindle DX	I'm frankly sceptical. Yes, it could be any time till June 30, by which time a number of rival products will have emerged. Also, strictly speaking there's no promise of folders, just a solution to manage libraries. How about if they had said they would release a highly integrated folder system by Christmas -- that's what I was naively hoping for! Instead it sounds like some half-baked "solution" that will come out some time next year!

11-23-2009, 09:50 AM	#19
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	I had the same reaction as a couple of posters here when I heard that Amazon's solution wouldn't be available until the first half of next year, and I also would have prefered to have heard exactly what is was they were planning for a solution. If it was folders then why didn't they come out and say so? With all that said, I still think this is a major announcement. Next year is less than a month and half away, so an announcement that says we will have something in 6 to 7 months is great news. Plus, if it is not folders then it is probably a system that allows us to add tags to books and then search on the tags. We've discussed the merits of tags vs. folders here on Mobileread in the past and many people seemed to have prefered a tagging system (personally I'd like both). My biggest surprise was that this announcement hasn't generated more excitement. It seems like it has been ages that we have been asking for folders/tags, and when Amazon announces they've been listening, and will give us what we want, there is a big collective YAWN. I would have figured this would have been a hot topic and would have been placed on the front page (I requested it and the request was denied). Maybe it was Amazon's low key way of announcing the change or the lack of specifics. I don't know, but what I do know is that I have over 1,000 books on my Kindle and I badly need a way to manage them. Thank you, Amazon. Amazon announcing that they are going to provide me that ability is like a Christmas present even if I don't receive it for another 6 months, especially when you consider that I don't have to pay for it. It looks like Amazon is providing this upgrade for free and as far as I am concerned that makes me appreciate Amazon even more. Many companies would have just withheld this feature until they released the next version of their ereader.

11-23-2009, 03:19 PM	#20
Sheikspeare Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 290 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: PR-505 / Kindle DX	Daithi, The proof will be in the pudding!

11-24-2009, 09:36 AM	#21
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	I wonder how it will be implemented? Unless Amazon returns to the K1 file management where you could select multiple items to move or delete, it's going to be cumbersome working on one ebook at a time. Folders would probably allow management via the PC but there would still be a need for an onboard implementaion system. Still, this is great news and can't wait to see the solution.

12-03-2009, 05:21 PM	#24
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	I find tagging more useful than bookmarking/folders nowadays. After using tagging in firefox for organising bookmarks I've realised it's THE way to organize data. Slapping on genre and author tags would be pretty effective. Need advanced tagging features!

12-03-2009, 06:24 PM	#25
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	Categorization options will be helpful. But for organizational purposes, folders would suck. If you wanted to have one book in more than one category, you'd have to put it in more than one folder, which would a) be an organizational nightmare, b) clog up your Kindle with duplicates, c) each copy would have its own notes, last spot read, i.e. it would screw up syncing via Whispernet. I'm not glad that Amazon dropped the ball on some type of category setup, but folders aren't the answer.

12-03-2009, 07:04 PM	#26
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	A typical tagging/category implementation would work something like this -- you select a file/ebook from the Kindle list of books, select an option that you want to add a tag, and then enter the text of that tag with the Kindle's keyboard. You would need to do this for every book to which you want to add a tag. This can take a fair amount of time if you have over a thousand books. One of the advantageous of folders is that they are easy to manage using existing PC technology. I can use standard techniques, such as clicking the first file in a list and then use Shift-Click to select the last file as well as those in between, and now I can just drag and drop those files into a folder. It is much quicker to manage than are tags. Furthermore, Amazon uses auxillary files to keep track of notes, last spot read, etc. these files can continue to remain in the root directory so that two files with the same name and size would use the same auxillary file. Personally, I'd like to have both options, but I'd be happy with either option.

12-03-2009, 11:23 PM	#27
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	Believe it or not (and I'm pretty incredulous here myself), to be fair, the more I use Kindle for PC, the more I begin to understand why some people don't see this as necessary. I love my folders on my EZ Reader, but being able to sort by title or author or date also works a lot better than I thought it would. I don't, of course, have a thousand books in my Kindle for PC app (give me a year though...grin), and maybe if I did I'd find it a nightmare. Anyway, I'm still excited to see what the new system will be.

12-05-2009, 01:18 PM	#29
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	If the Kindle supported tags/categories, then all Kindle books should also at least be tagged correctly. Or even better, users should be able to add and edit their own categories. Perhaps Kindle for PC is a step in this direction. I can understand if it's not just snapping the fingers to implement it. Personally I would like tags. I can live with a flat list, but it would be nice to have at least folder support, or better, tagging.

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12-05-2009, 11:18 PM	#30
WookieReader Member Posts: 22 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Weldon Spring, Missouri Device: Sony PRS-505, Iliad 2nd Ed/iPhone	I like their latest upgrade, PDF is better and now flows if you convert. The folders issue came up just now, as I got on the forum to figure out how to organize all my PDF docs. "Flat" is correct and very frustrating. I am still in the 'return' period on the DX and wondered if anyone else out there does folders better?