is this legal?

pyrokamileon · 11-21-2011, 06:25 PM

is there a problem with me using an epub that I "found" online if I have the physical book in my bookshelf?

danskmacabre · 11-21-2011, 06:34 PM

By the letter of the law it's still illegal.

Bilbo1967 · 11-21-2011, 06:36 PM

That would depend what the epub was, surely?

If it's in the public domain in your country, then no problem.

I'm guessing from the way the question's phrased however that it is illegal.

howyoudoin · 11-21-2011, 06:40 PM

It would, I suppose, depend on the copyright laws in your country.

JSWolf · 11-21-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrokamileon

is there a problem with me using an epub that I "found" online if I have the physical book in my bookshelf?

It's illegal unless the ePub is public domain or has a creative commons license in your country.

mpd123 · 11-21-2011, 07:34 PM

there is no problem with you putting it on your device speaking in a purley technical sense that it will work and you will be able to read it.

but can you live with yourself afterwards?!?!?!?

mick.

DavidF · 11-21-2011, 08:44 PM

Almost certainly illegal, but immoral ???

I have a few "aqquired" epubs of books that I own a physical paper copy of. I view this the same way I do my practice of buying a CD, ripping it to a file I then put on my ipod. (this is legal in some locations, but I believe it to be illegal in Australia)

On a related matter, I have just read that Penguin is suspending the availability of ebooks to libraries - have the publishers learnt nothing from the music industry ?

If people cannot do something legally, they may well do it illegally. Once they are in the habit of not paying for something, good luck in getting them to change

pyrokamileon · 11-22-2011, 06:56 AM

*sigh* well that sure is a buzzkill! I mean ever since I learned that you're legally allowed to make digital backups of music you buy I've never worried about downloading music when I have it's disc put away in my bedroom, I was pretty much doing the same for books but since I've never heard anyone say the same for books it always felt shady somehow.

if copyright laws are what would define the legality of these desicions then can someone please link me to a page where I can read up on the U.S. copyright laws?

HarryT · 11-22-2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrokamileon

if copyright laws are what would define the legality of these desicions then can someone please link me to a page where I can read up on the U.S. copyright laws?

http://copyright.gov/title17/

rashkae · 11-22-2011, 03:07 PM

It's an interesting question, and IANAL. However, I think it's entirely accademic. I don't think there's anyone trying to police or prosecute the possession of copyright material (other than computer software, but even in that case, they are focused on licensed usage.) However, distribution is, without doubt, a clear cut case of copyright violation, so your 'finding' might be both illegal and punisheable. If you download from a torrent, for example, or other file sharing scheme, then you become part of the distribution. No magic handwaving about backup/format shift will shield you from that.

JSWolf · 11-22-2011, 03:08 PM

Ok, let's look at this from another perspective.

You own a hardcover of a book. Are you entitled to the paperback for free? Nope.

You own a physical music CD. Should Apple send you the AAC files for that CD for free? Nope.

rashkae · 11-22-2011, 04:07 PM

Your asking the wrong question. Take the music example. Apple is not obliged to send you the ACC, but you *are* allowed, by law, to make your own.

The questions that remain are:

1. Is it legal to break the law to achieve a legal end. (Can you download those ACC's instead of ripping your own. Answer is no. Unless you live in Canada (or other jurisdiction where music downloads are allowed,), but that has nothing to do with previous related ownership, and doesn't cover file sharing.

2. Since you've already broken the law downloading those ACC's, it is still illegal to keep them? This is the question that was asked, and is no doubt a mental wanking excersise for lawyers. I don't think there is a correct answer to this question until it's argued and decided upon by a judge in each jurisdiction. The decision of the judges and policymakers will be the correct answer, regardless of the merrits of any argument put forth.

afv011 · 11-22-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rashkae

...Is it legal to break the law...

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Xennex1170 · 11-22-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rashkae
...Is it legal to break the law...

Quote:

Originally Posted by afv011

Isn't that an oxymoron?

It's not legal to break the law but it IS legal to amend or repeal it.

The Terminator · 11-22-2011, 08:54 PM

It isn't legal, but in my opinion it isn't morally wrong.

11-21-2011, 06:25 PM	#1
pyrokamileon Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kobo Wifi	is this legal? is there a problem with me using an epub that I "found" online if I have the physical book in my bookshelf?

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11-21-2011, 06:34 PM	#2
danskmacabre Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 3593438 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Glo. Galaxy Tab S 8.4	By the letter of the law it's still illegal.

11-21-2011, 06:36 PM	#3
Bilbo1967 Not scared! Posts: 13,424 Karma: 81011643 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midlands, UK Device: Kindle Paperwhite 10, Huawei M5 10	That would depend what the epub was, surely? If it's in the public domain in your country, then no problem. I'm guessing from the way the question's phrased however that it is illegal.

11-21-2011, 06:40 PM	#4
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	It would, I suppose, depend on the copyright laws in your country.

11-21-2011, 07:34 PM	#6
mpd123 Zealot Posts: 115 Karma: 8038 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: liverpool Device: kobo glo / samsung note 10.1	there is no problem with you putting it on your device speaking in a purley technical sense that it will work and you will be able to read it. but can you live with yourself afterwards?!?!?!? mick.

11-21-2011, 08:44 PM	#7
DavidF Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: kobo	Almost certainly illegal, but immoral ??? I have a few "aqquired" epubs of books that I own a physical paper copy of. I view this the same way I do my practice of buying a CD, ripping it to a file I then put on my ipod. (this is legal in some locations, but I believe it to be illegal in Australia) On a related matter, I have just read that Penguin is suspending the availability of ebooks to libraries - have the publishers learnt nothing from the music industry ? If people cannot do something legally, they may well do it illegally. Once they are in the habit of not paying for something, good luck in getting them to change

11-22-2011, 06:56 AM	#8
pyrokamileon Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kobo Wifi	sigh well that sure is a buzzkill! I mean ever since I learned that you're legally allowed to make digital backups of music you buy I've never worried about downloading music when I have it's disc put away in my bedroom, I was pretty much doing the same for books but since I've never heard anyone say the same for books it always felt shady somehow. if copyright laws are what would define the legality of these desicions then can someone please link me to a page where I can read up on the U.S. copyright laws?

11-22-2011, 03:07 PM	#10
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 5061953 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	It's an interesting question, and IANAL. However, I think it's entirely accademic. I don't think there's anyone trying to police or prosecute the possession of copyright material (other than computer software, but even in that case, they are focused on licensed usage.) However, distribution is, without doubt, a clear cut case of copyright violation, so your 'finding' might be both illegal and punisheable. If you download from a torrent, for example, or other file sharing scheme, then you become part of the distribution. No magic handwaving about backup/format shift will shield you from that.

11-22-2011, 03:08 PM	#11
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,033 Karma: 129333114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Ok, let's look at this from another perspective. You own a hardcover of a book. Are you entitled to the paperback for free? Nope. You own a physical music CD. Should Apple send you the AAC files for that CD for free? Nope.

11-22-2011, 04:07 PM	#12
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 5061953 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	Your asking the wrong question. Take the music example. Apple is not obliged to send you the ACC, but you are allowed, by law, to make your own. The questions that remain are: 1. Is it legal to break the law to achieve a legal end. (Can you download those ACC's instead of ripping your own. Answer is no. Unless you live in Canada (or other jurisdiction where music downloads are allowed,), but that has nothing to do with previous related ownership, and doesn't cover file sharing. 2. Since you've already broken the law downloading those ACC's, it is still illegal to keep them? This is the question that was asked, and is no doubt a mental wanking excersise for lawyers. I don't think there is a correct answer to this question until it's argued and decided upon by a judge in each jurisdiction. The decision of the judges and policymakers will be the correct answer, regardless of the merrits of any argument put forth.

11-22-2011, 08:54 PM	#15
The Terminator Retired Posts: 2,552 Karma: 37638420 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Optimus One (2.3), Nexus 7 (4.2)	It isn't legal, but in my opinion it isn't morally wrong.

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