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Old 02-21-2011, 08:30 AM   #1
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Amazon Kindle and DRM Removal...
Maybe a silly question, but I'm just wondering if Amazon knows (or really cares) if you have DRM-Removed content on your Kindle? Just curious...
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:46 AM   #2
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Thus far, Jeff Bezos has not sent his henchmen out to my house to rough me up.

It's been discussed here a bit. Do they have the capability to detect? Yes, I'm sure they do. Up there in the Kindle Developers section is some info about Amazon/Big Brother and the information they store about your reading habits. It is enough to make you want to get out the tinfoil hats.

To tell you the truth I'm not a huge fan of all these new "Social Reading" enhancements like shared highlighting and notes and rating the book for other readers that they keep coming up with. I like my reading solitary for the most part and I keep my WiFi mostly off.

Do they care? I couldn't tell you.

I do know that by the estimates I've read there are about 10 to 12 million Kindles running amok now. I seriously doubt Amazon is going to take the time to inspect all our libraries and try to make judgment calls on whether or not that Un-DRMd document is a book I liberated, something I copied from FanFic.net, the menu from my local restaurant, an ARC book from NetGalley that was sent to me for review, or the agenda for next Friday's Sales Conference ... all of which currently reside on my Kindle.

That would be an awful lot of hired manpower snooping.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:19 AM   #3
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abookreader:

Your bottom line:

"That would be an awful lot of hired manpower snooping. "

Actually, it would only take a computer matching phrases from your book and, frankly, if Shazam can match sound bytes, matching actual text would probably be easier. Is that roll of tin foil large enough for you to send me a few inches?

But I agree that I can definitely do without the social networking/sharing/whatever stuff that is being pushed out. I don't do facebook and every friend keeps asking me to join. Each new invite from facebook lists all of the people who have already asked me to join.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:30 AM   #4
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In these days of datamining (of which Amazon is probably second only to Google), it takes very little in the way of manpower to snoop. So yes, I'm quite sure they can, if they choose, know all the details of the books I have on my Kindle. Including the three books I bought yesterday, from Amazon, and immediately removed their DRM from. Not because I will give the books to anyone else (besides my spouse who is already on the same account), but because that is the first step I do for ANY item that has DRM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:23 AM   #5
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but I doubt that amazon could prove that any given de-drmed book came origianlly from the amazon store or from some other store or format.

phrase matching could e.g. prove that I have a non-encrypted source of war and peace on my Kindle but it cannot detect whose source was de-drmed ?. I am not an expert on book copyright law but somehow I doubt that Amazon own any book copyrights - those will reside with the paper book publishers - Amazon will just have a licence to produce e-book versions in exchange for royalty payments. look in a purchased Kindle book & see who "owns" the story.

update - I look in a Kindle book & see
Copyright © [year] by [author name]
then the usual blurb about work of fiction - resemblance to real people...blah blah
the works Kindle & Amazon appear nowhere.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:40 AM   #6
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I do know, because I have tried it, that if you email any of the Harry Potter books available on the darknet to your kindle via Calibre they do not appear but if you sideload them then they remain...
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryinOCMD View Post
Maybe a silly question, but I'm just wondering if Amazon knows (or really cares) if you have DRM-Removed content on your Kindle? Just curious...
Whether an ebook you open has DRM or not is one of the things that is logged and uploaded to Amazon when you go online. What they do with that information is anyone's guess, but presumably they have some use for it.

Other things that are logged are your GPS location (if you have 3G), the time and date you open the ebook, how long you read for, and whether you finish it or not. I'm not sure what GPS location is used for, but all the others will be useful marketing information when used with your Amazon browsing history. Knowing when you are expected to finish your latest book being the most useful.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:45 AM   #8
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but I doubt that amazon could prove that any given de-drmed book came origianlly from the amazon store or from some other store or format.
Unless you bought it from Amazon.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:50 AM   #9
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Unless you bought it from Amazon.
i good defence lawyer would rip that to shreds - if I'd bought the book from amazon anyway, then what law am I breaking by storing a non-encrypted copy on my Kindle or on my PC ( living outside of the ligitious USA)

as for the troll-like Harry Potter post - what happens is you send a text file with the phrase "I am a harry potter story" inside of it ???
I so much don't believe that post I am almost persuaded to email some HP stuff to my own kindle as a test.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:04 PM   #10
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i good defence lawyer would rip that to shreds - if I'd bought the book from amazon anyway, then what law am I breaking by storing a non-encrypted copy on my Kindle or on my PC ( living outside of the ligitious USA)

as for the troll-like Harry Potter post - what happens is you send a text file with the phrase "I am a harry potter story" inside of it ???
I so much don't believe that post I am almost persuaded to email some HP stuff to my own kindle as a test.
I actually have emailed books in pdf to my Kindle, and had them converted with no problem. These were books that Amazon sells in azw form. Someone had scanned them and made reasonable pdfs of them. Of course, the conversion to azw pretty much sucked, as I suspected it would. I just wanted to see what would happen. Obviously, the whole process is automated, and Amazon has not yet put in place anything that flags non-DRMed material.

Or they are just waiting until a certain critical mass is reached, and they will then send a self-destruct signal to all scofflaw Kindle owners...
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:10 PM   #11
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Or they are just waiting until a certain critical mass is reached, and they will then send a self-destruct signal to all scofflaw Kindle owners...
Not me - I've got my tin foil hat!

Maybe I should investigate the thread on "big brother" features.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:14 PM   #12
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If all you do is strip the DRM from a MOBI/AZW ebook, then its metadata still includes where you bought it. Even for ePubs, say, converted to MOBI (potentially with less explicit metadata) it isn't hard to identify the publisher and this typically confirms that DRM should be present.

Amazon's terms of service say that you should not strip DRM from their ebooks, but I don't think it says anything about ebooks from other stores.

I agree, though, that Amazon would have to be crazy to go after its customers for DRM-stripping. It is possible that Agency publishers are that crazy, and they might try to pressure Amazon to check for DRM-free Agency titles. However, they have not done this yet.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
i good defence lawyer would rip that to shreds - if I'd bought the book from amazon anyway, then what law am I breaking by storing a non-encrypted copy on my Kindle or on my PC ( living outside of the ligitious USA)

as for the troll-like Harry Potter post - what happens is you send a text file with the phrase "I am a harry potter story" inside of it ???
I so much don't believe that post I am almost persuaded to email some HP stuff to my own kindle as a test.
Excuse me, troll like!!!!, Please explain... By all means try it, the same also happens with Kindle for PC.. why on earth should I troll. I think trying before slurring character would have been the better option...

If I double click on Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone, Kindle for PC opens and tells me, the book could not be opened please remove and redownload... Emailed to my kindle, it appears I can open but shortly after it vanishes, I have to reconvert through calibre and sideload to make it stay put...
Last edited by grizedale; 02-21-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:57 PM   #14
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Excuse me, troll like!!!!, Please explain... By all means try it, the same also happens with Kindle for PC.. why on earth should I troll. I think trying before slurring character would have been the better option...

If I double click on Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone, Kindle for PC opens and tells me, the book could not be opened please remove and redownload... Emailed to my kindle, it appears I can open but shortly after it vanishes, I have to reconvert through calibre and sideload to make it stay put...
I have the Harry Potter books, deDRMed, and from a source other than Amazon, and they all open fine with Kindle for PC and on my Kindle. Might yours still have DRM from an earlier version of Kindle for PC?
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
i good defence lawyer would rip that to shreds - if I'd bought the book from amazon anyway, then what law am I breaking by storing a non-encrypted copy on my Kindle or on my PC ( living outside of the ligitious USA)

as for the troll-like Harry Potter post - what happens is you send a text file with the phrase "I am a harry potter story" inside of it ???
I so much don't believe that post I am almost persuaded to email some HP stuff to my own kindle as a test.
Any laws broken (or not) would depend on where you live, but removing DRM is certainly against the terms of use for both Amazon's website and the Kindle (in both its hardware and software forms).

The Harry Potter story sounds like an urban myth to me, but I think anyone emailing pirate books through Amazon is plain daft anyway.
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