New Kindle Format 8 (HTML5) - Page 3

DiapDealer · 10-22-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Mobi doesn't support blockquote. And when they want to use such, it just looks so wrong to have a larger left margin with the same right margin.

Of course mobi supports blockquote. You must be thinking of right-margin.

JSWolf · 10-22-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Of course mobi supports blockquote. You must be thinking of right-margin.

But does a blockquote in mobi use a different right margin?

DiapDealer · 10-22-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But does a blockquote in mobi use a different right margin?

No. The Kindle doesn't support right margins. Period. But that doesn't have anything to do with the blockquote tag. Which is why I said; "you must be thinking of right margin." Because the blockquote tag is supported.

Zeebra · 10-22-2011, 02:30 PM

I dunno I guess i'll have to wait and see what it offers. I hope when Amazon rolls it out they include a sample document that shows off the new formatting features so we know what to expect.

DiapDealer · 10-22-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeebra

I dunno I guess i'll have to wait and see what it offers. I hope when Amazon rolls it out they include a sample document that shows off the new formatting features so we know what to expect.

To be honest, I think you nailed it earlier. The creators of Kindle books will notice and appreciate the changes more than your average novel reader will. Comic books, textbooks and instructional/children's books are where this new format will really stand out.

wallcraft · 10-22-2011, 02:52 PM

This thread has been concentrating on the user experience, but the other advantage of a "standard" is that the publishers can produce one ebook for all markets. I think it is very likely that ePub 2 (the current ePub) will translate almost perfectly into KF8. If not, Amazon screwed up and they don't usually screw up purely technical issues. So publishers may be much closer to being able to provide one ebook source to everyone for "narrative" ebooks.

I usually download AZW's in Kindle 1 files, because its DRM is never doing to be strengthened. However, the inverse of the ePub to KF8 correspondence is also likely to be true. If you want an ePub-like ebook KF8 is going to be a better starting point for conversion than KF7 (MOBI). So I may have to switch to the Fire or K4PC (once KF8 enabled) for my downloads. However, Zeebra has a point - MOBI is almost good enough for all narrative ebooks in languages supported by the built in font.

It is less clear to me how close ePub 3 and KF8 are. This may lead to a split in the technical ebook market and the illustrated ebook market. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if KindleGen 2 included ePub 3 as one of its input formats. Note that ePub 2 is already an input option for the existing KindleGen, but ePub to MOBI is a non-trivial conversion that Amazon does not do optimally.

squiggy · 10-22-2011, 03:03 PM

Because of this announcement, I'm now considering selling my K3 for the low-end K4. I read a lot of technical books with complex formatting and I'd like to read on both my iPad and Kindle. I find the current format to be so limiting that I avoid many tech books.

Since Amazon's announcement was so cagey regarding K3 support, I'm thinking it may be wise to play it safe and upgrade while the K3 still has some value.

DiapDealer · 10-22-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It is less clear to me how close ePub 3 and KF8 are. This may lead to a split in the technical ebook market and the illustrated ebook market. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if KindleGen 2 included ePub 3 as one of its input formats. Note that ePub 2 is already an input option for the existing KindleGen, but ePub to MOBI is a non-trivial conversion that Amazon does not do optimally.

I'm personally hoping for something similar to their "Print Replica" format (which was a PDF embedded in a record of the normal, everyday Palmdoc wrapper. With the F8 format, I'm expecting something very epub-ish to be embedded in the standard Palmdoc wrapper (which will basically be nothing more than a DRM vehicle).

I could be wrong, though... wouldn't be the first time.

Andrew H. · 10-22-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

World wide, ePub is #1. You cannot just count the USA. You have to take into account eBooks from all over the world.

80% of e-books sold are sold in the US. In Europe, half of all e-books sold are sold in the UK, where the Kindle is even more dominant than it is in the US (presumably due to the absence of B&N). Kindle also has a significant presence in Canada and Australia. Epub does dominate in non-anglophone markets - but these markets are tiny. In Germany, where readers spend twice as much per capita as the British, they only buy 1/10 as many e-books. (It will be interesting to see if this changes since Amazon is now offering German e-books).

Epub is still an important format, but the fact that it is dominant in a large number of markets where e-books comprise 0.5% of all books sold doesn't tell much about its future importance.

JSWolf · 10-22-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

80% of e-books sold are sold in the US. In Europe, half of all e-books sold are sold in the UK, where the Kindle is even more dominant than it is in the US (presumably due to the absence of B&N). Kindle also has a significant presence in Canada and Australia. Epub does dominate in non-anglophone markets - but these markets are tiny. In Germany, where readers spend twice as much per capita as the British, they only buy 1/10 as many e-books. (It will be interesting to see if this changes since Amazon is now offering German e-books).

Epub is still an important format, but the fact that it is dominant in a large number of markets where e-books comprise 0.5% of all books sold doesn't tell much about its future importance.

ePub is the most important eBook format in all of history. If ePub was to ever go away, Amazon would rule and that would be not good for humanity.

charmian · 10-22-2011, 04:21 PM

I'm interested in the ruby capabilities of Kindle Format 8. Does anyone more versed in this field know if it can do vertical text as well? If it can, this might mean that Kindle is poised to enter East Asia. That's my greatest wish for Kindle, that it be able to better accommodate Japanese texts and sell Japanese books.

jswinden · 10-22-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiggy

Because of this announcement, I'm now considering selling my K3 for the low-end K4. I read a lot of technical books with complex formatting and I'd like to read on both my iPad and Kindle. I find the current format to be so limiting that I avoid many tech books.

Since Amazon's announcement was so cagey regarding K3 support, I'm thinking it may be wise to play it safe and upgrade while the K3 still has some value.

It might take a while for technical book publishers/creators to start using KF8. And even when they do, they might not use it correctly. Just look at all the terribly formatted ePubs and mobis out there. But I sure hope it does make a huge, positive impact on the non-fiction eBooks released in the future.

jswinden · 10-22-2011, 04:28 PM

Anyone have a can of Raid Wolf repellent?

tekline · 10-22-2011, 05:10 PM

I look forward to integrating KindleGen2 and Kindle Previewer 2 into my Kindle Writer. Also the opportunity to develop HTML5 templates designed specifically for Kindle Fire and the later Kindle 4s within Kindle Fire.

http://www.kindlewriter.co.uk

I am not sure but I believe that Kindlegen 2 will also convert epub books to the new format. Anybody heard anything about that?

JSWolf · 10-22-2011, 05:18 PM

Yes, the new Kindlegen 2 will convert ePub to KF8. So if you have a well made ePub, I'd guess you'd get a well made KF8 file out of it from the conversion.

10-22-2011, 02:52 PM	#36
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	This thread has been concentrating on the user experience, but the other advantage of a "standard" is that the publishers can produce one ebook for all markets. I think it is very likely that ePub 2 (the current ePub) will translate almost perfectly into KF8. If not, Amazon screwed up and they don't usually screw up purely technical issues. So publishers may be much closer to being able to provide one ebook source to everyone for "narrative" ebooks. I usually download AZW's in Kindle 1 files, because its DRM is never doing to be strengthened. However, the inverse of the ePub to KF8 correspondence is also likely to be true. If you want an ePub-like ebook KF8 is going to be a better starting point for conversion than KF7 (MOBI). So I may have to switch to the Fire or K4PC (once KF8 enabled) for my downloads. However, Zeebra has a point - MOBI is almost good enough for all narrative ebooks in languages supported by the built in font. It is less clear to me how close ePub 3 and KF8 are. This may lead to a split in the technical ebook market and the illustrated ebook market. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if KindleGen 2 included ePub 3 as one of its input formats. Note that ePub 2 is already an input option for the existing KindleGen, but ePub to MOBI is a non-trivial conversion that Amazon does not do optimally. Last edited by wallcraft; 10-22-2011 at 02:58 PM.

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10-22-2011, 02:30 PM	#34
Zeebra Evangelist Posts: 461 Karma: 956567 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Toronto, Canada Device: Kindle Oasis 3	I dunno I guess i'll have to wait and see what it offers. I hope when Amazon rolls it out they include a sample document that shows off the new formatting features so we know what to expect.

10-22-2011, 03:03 PM	#37
squiggy Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: Kindle 3	Because of this announcement, I'm now considering selling my K3 for the low-end K4. I read a lot of technical books with complex formatting and I'd like to read on both my iPad and Kindle. I find the current format to be so limiting that I avoid many tech books. Since Amazon's announcement was so cagey regarding K3 support, I'm thinking it may be wise to play it safe and upgrade while the K3 still has some value.

10-22-2011, 04:21 PM	#41
charmian Addict Posts: 386 Karma: 1814548 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle 3, Kindle PW2	I'm interested in the ruby capabilities of Kindle Format 8. Does anyone more versed in this field know if it can do vertical text as well? If it can, this might mean that Kindle is poised to enter East Asia. That's my greatest wish for Kindle, that it be able to better accommodate Japanese texts and sell Japanese books.

10-22-2011, 04:28 PM	#43
jswinden Nameless Being	Anyone have a can of Raid Wolf repellent?

10-22-2011, 05:10 PM	#44
tekline Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: Kindle 3	I look forward to integrating KindleGen2 and Kindle Previewer 2 into my Kindle Writer. Also the opportunity to develop HTML5 templates designed specifically for Kindle Fire and the later Kindle 4s within Kindle Fire. http://www.kindlewriter.co.uk I am not sure but I believe that Kindlegen 2 will also convert epub books to the new format. Anybody heard anything about that?

10-22-2011, 05:18 PM	#45
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,987 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Yes, the new Kindlegen 2 will convert ePub to KF8. So if you have a well made ePub, I'd guess you'd get a well made KF8 file out of it from the conversion.

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