04-29-2010, 09:55 AM | #1 | |
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Jobs speaks up about Flash
Well Jobs has spoken. In a press release he makes 6 points on what he sees as problems with Flash and why it is "old technology."
You may not agree with what he has to say, but you can't deny he makes some interesting remarks. Flash on the iDevice platform, never going to happen. So if that is your requirement for a tablet style device, please shop elsewhere. Quote:
Last edited by scottjl; 04-29-2010 at 11:08 AM. |
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04-29-2010, 10:35 AM | #2 |
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I thought it was well written and contained a lot of valid points.
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04-29-2010, 11:24 AM | #3 |
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1. No denying this one. Adobe owns Flash. Control over the features, control over the APIs, control over the development system, control over platforms, control over release schedules. It's all theirs. Funny how people cry that the iDevice OS isn't open but don't make the same complaint about Flash.
2. This is my next to last weakest argument. "Full web experience" is simply a vague complaint. Some sites work, some sites don't. As development moves on more and more sites will shift over to "open standard" technologies like HTML5 and this argument will get stronger. 75% of the web runs flash today, 74% tomorrow. Still a weak point. 3. Flash is an open barn door when it comes to security, this is a known. Adobe has been slow to implement patches, though they are getting better. Still Flash is used and abused by hackers and web sites alike. Most people have no idea what a LSO is, let alone how to secure theirs. 4. Battery life. This is the weakest argument in my opinion. Battery life is too much of a moving target. Yes, Flash is known to drain batteries faster, but if that is something the end user is made aware of and accepts, then so be it. Give them a warning when they enable Flash that their battery life will be cut in half. Simple. No whining that you weren't warned. Battery technologies are improving as well, so today's gadgets run for 5 hours, tomorrow's gadgets run for 7. 5. Can't disagree with this one either, and this affects more than just the iPad, iPhone and Touch. What about that touchscreen HP desktop you just bought? Those Android tablets people are holding out for? Even my Asus eeePC with a touchscreen (that I added in myself) can't do rollovers, just clicks. 6. Yes, this is partially to protect Apple's interests in their OS, but he's got a very valid point here. Every cross-platform development system suffers from the same problem. To be truly cross-platform you code to the lowest denominator or you break cross-platform compatibility and features. If Apple releases an iPhone with a holographic display developers who code in Flash are stuck waiting for Adobe to support it. Joe Public buys the latest iPhone and complains that half his apps don't support this new feature Apple is advertising "FarmVille won't display my cow-poop in 3d! This new iPhone 3D sucks!" Apple takes a black eye. Adobe holds all the cards for Apple and Flash developers to implement APIs to the new 3d technology when they want to. Loss for Apple, loss for developers, loss for end-users and a big win for Adobe. |
04-29-2010, 11:54 AM | #4 |
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I like to address the first one. As I had this discussion not too long ago in a online web development course.
HTML5 is still a few years away. So why is he even bringing that up? I am glad he admits they basically do the same thing as adobe though, I will give him credit there, but you can't use HTML5 as your arguement if it isn't ready. 2nd point: Netflix uses silverlight, and they created an App specific to iPhone, but the Youtube app he talks about, the problem is YOU DO NOT GET ALL youtube videos. (I have an iPhone and some of my videos don't work). Adobe is right that, 75% of the web is flash. It is annoying when I try to go to a website and just get ? and not be able to browse the site on my phone. Third reason I am not buying it. I mean really not buying it. Also Adobe has shown flash running perfectly on the Droid, so that fails. The security thing, every website has security issues. Fourth reason, battery life. Really? Fifth reason- Again I am not buying that either since I since touch devices can handle it (again adobe has shown videos). Sixth Reason- Apple's stance to continue to put down third party developers. This is why a lot of people do not buy Mac's there is not many alternatives to Apple products. I am not a Apple Hater, I have MAC OS x on my netbook, and have an iPhone, but these reasons are all flawed to anyone who actually knows something about technology. This seems to be targeted to casual people to convince them to get an iPad. Honestly I want an iPad, but I am not spending that ridiculous amount of money for one. |
04-29-2010, 12:11 PM | #5 | ||||||
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This also isn't about website security issues, he's speaking about security issues on your desktop. Attack vectors through the Flash plugin running in your browser. Hackers taking over your system through Flash bugs, bugs that Adobe has a history of being very slow, over a year in some cases, to patch. Quote:
Simple solution, is to not code hover elements at all. Quote:
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04-29-2010, 12:15 PM | #6 | ||||
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All that being said, I think Apple would be well-advised to allow an Adobe-developed Flash app on the iDevices - as a discrete app rather than an integrated plugin, it would protect the integrity of the platform, and people could find out well Flash does (or doesn't) work on the iPhone OS. |
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04-29-2010, 12:18 PM | #7 |
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Reasonably fair right up.
But at the end of the day, all that matters for users is that sites that use Flash won't work on the iPad. End users have no reason to care about Apple's justifications for not supporting it nor allowing apps to support it etc. It's not a deal breaker for me in a tablet, since I'd still do most of my web browsing on laptops and desktops anyway. But until the net changes to where most video is in HTML 5 etc., having Flash would be a huge plus for a tablet when I'm deciding which one to buy. At least on the iPad I can get some Youtube videos, Netflix, Abc.com with apps--and soon hulu as well. But that still misses out on CBS (don't think most of their stuff is on Hulu), ESPN360, and of course porn! |
04-29-2010, 12:23 PM | #8 |
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http://www.webmonkey.com/2008/09/htm..._yes__2022dot/
Please read this about HTML5. they want 2012, but it could be 2022. So why talk about a technology that could be 10 years away? 2012 IS THE EARLIEST. It is stupid to say well HTML5 when they will probably be up to their 3rd revision of the iPad by then. Adobe said early 2010? when has it been pushed back again? It is because they want want to run on MULITPLE Mobile devices. Not every device has the same operating system. hate to tell you, but I have never had a plug-in crash my PC. I stream Netflix all the time on my netbook using My Mac OS and my Win 7 no issues. I never had a flash plug-in or Java plug-in crash my PC. Drivers yes, but not plug-ins, unless you are using plug-ins that are probably not tested. Also hackers take over your system using flash? Really? Hackers can take over your system using anything. Sorry it is a bad excuse. No the real reason I don't want an iPad because it is not worth 500 dollars, when I can do basically everything minus iBooks on my iPhone. I said I want an iPad, don't put words in my mouth. Seriously I am not bias, but obviously you are (had a look at your other posts). |
04-29-2010, 12:24 PM | #9 | |
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As far as porn goes, I heard on some tech podcast that a lot of porn sites were already offering HTML5 video to catch the iPad/iPhone audience. Haven't investigated that to see if it's true... |
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04-29-2010, 12:27 PM | #10 | |
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Saw this after I posted. but the flash kills battery life, no ANYTHING that uses resources kiling battery life. That is like me saying put a dvd in and watch a movie and watch your battery life die. You can't pin that just on flash. That is why I said really. It is a poor excuse. Using apple apps to watch stuff on my iPhone kills the battery. |
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04-29-2010, 12:32 PM | #11 | ||
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And no one is suggesting that sites should immediately drop Flash and switch solely to HTML5 - just that it would be a good idea to offer an HTML5 option if you want to get as many eyeballs on your content as possible. It's not an either/or proposition. Quote:
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04-29-2010, 12:36 PM | #12 | ||
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If you read my response earlier, I say it's a weak argument. Let the buyer beware and make their own decision. Run Flash and only have 2-3 hours of battery life, or view h.264 video (which uses dedicated hardware decoding) and double your battery life. Jobs goes on further to explain that while Desktop implementations of Flash are now beginning to support h.264 video, that if developers are going to go through the process to convert their video to h.264, why not just use an open-standard as HTML5 for the container format than continue to use Flash. HTML5 is an open format, on the way to becoming a web standard (in 2 years, or in 12, Flash will never be an open standard format), and available on many platforms and in many browsers. Last edited by scottjl; 04-29-2010 at 12:38 PM. |
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04-29-2010, 12:36 PM | #13 | |
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04-29-2010, 12:37 PM | #14 |
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He said PC crash, not broswer crash. Hence I never had a PC crash using a plug-in.
I know there is some HTML5 being used but it isn't going to take over the internet for a few years. It is bad argument right now, when people want it Right now. That is all I am saying. For some people who want to know if you can run HTML5 http://html5test.com/ To my Knowledge only Safari is really good at it, where Firefox and Chrome are trying to work on it. |
04-29-2010, 12:41 PM | #15 |
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consider yourself lucky if a plugin has never brought down your computer. i've had plugins (not just Flash) bring down Windows XP, Windows 7, and the Mac OS. and I've had them bring down browsers, including Chrome (which is my current favorite) even more frequently. the only OS i can say that hasn't been brought to its knees by a plugin has been Linux. The browser may bomb out, but the OS is rock solid.
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