Harper Collins' response to new library lending policy

[Fbone]

The President of Sales for HC Josh Marwell posted an open letter to librarians:

http://harperlibrary.typepad.com/my_...ibrarians.html

A partial quote:

Twenty-six circulations can provide a year of availability for titles with the highest demand, and much longer for other titles and core backlist. If a library decides to repurchase an e-book later in the book’s life, the price will be significantly lower as it will be pegged to a paperback price point. Our hope is to make the cost per circulation for e-books less than that of the corresponding physical book. In fact, the digital list price is generally 20% lower than the print version, and sold to distributors at a discount.

[Guns4Hire]

In fact, the digital list price is generally 20% lower than the print version, and sold to distributors at a discount.

Whats funny is I just got done reading a thread where one of the publishers was saying that ebooks cost more than pbooks. Because of encoding, software management and archiving etc.

LOL so which is it? They cost less ... they cost more.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Guns4Hire

LOL so which is it? They cost less ... they cost more.

Yes...

[Guns4Hire]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yes...

Hah...good to know.

[ATDrake]

Somehow I rather mistrust their likelihood of lowering the price to paperback levels after a year.

As for 26 loans covering the highest demand titles for a year: ahahaha… no.

Of the three Steig Larsson The Girl Who… titles that have been available to the 4.5 million potential e-book library patrons throughout my entire province which were added to the catalogue on June 11, 2010, here's the stats for how many copies they've got and who's still waiting:

Dragon Tattoo: 35 copies, 113 patrons on waiting list.
Played With Fire: 21 copies, 72 patrons on waiting list.
Kicked the Hornet's Nest: 33 copies, 156 patrons on waiting list.

And keep in mind that some of the participating libraries are "Overdrive Advantage" subscribers who buy extra copies just for their patrons which won't show in the system unless I've got a library card for them.

And people have been reading these books since June, which if we assume a 2 week loan expiry to go with the "26 reads per year" model, means that approximately 560 patrons could have read the Dragon Tattoo book alone since then.

Under the HarperCollins model, we'd have to subscribe to 21+ years of availability for just the 8 months. Oh well, maybe they just don't read very much over at HC HQ.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Somehow I rather mistrust their likelihood of lowering the price to paperback levels after a year.

As for 26 loans covering the highest demand titles for a year: ahahaha… no.

Of the three Steig Larsson The Girl Who… titles that have been available to the 4.5 million potential e-book library patrons throughout my entire province which were added to the catalogue on June 11, 2010, here's the stats for how many copies they've got and who's still waiting:

Dragon Tattoo: 35 copies, 113 patrons on waiting list.
Played With Fire: 21 copies, 72 patrons on waiting list.
Kicked the Hornet's Nest: 33 copies, 156 patrons on waiting list.

And keep in mind that some of the participating libraries are "Overdrive Advantage" subscribers who buy extra copies just for their patrons which won't show in the system unless I've got a library card for them.

And people have been reading these books since June, which if we assume a 2 week loan expiry to go with the "26 reads per year" model, means that approximately 560 patrons could have read the Dragon Tattoo book alone since then.

Under the HarperCollins model, we'd have to subscribe to 21+ years of availability for just the 8 months. Oh well, maybe they just don't read very much over at HC HQ.

maybe they're just acting dumb in the hopes that someone, and maybe even they, will believe what they're saying? o_o

[kalex]

What a crock of shit. Lets start a pool to see how long he remains President of sales.

These morons are so far up their asses that they can't even agree on which one is it. do the ebooks cost more than physical or not. There is hardcover/paperback in ebooks but these idiots are still using these as references. Wow its hilarious to read these "open letters". That post is filled with "we", company, long research, blah blah blah. Basically every corporate fluff that can be assembled is in one letter is there.

We are looking to balance the mission and needs of libraries and their patrons with those of authors and booksellers, so that the library channel can thrive alongside the growing e-book retail channel.

Here is an idea: Remove HC form the picture and there are millions saved there that can go to authors who in turn will gladly provide books to libraries.

These idiots are smoking crack pipes while riding the sinking ship

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Guns4Hire

Whats funny is I just got done reading a thread where one of the publishers was saying that ebooks cost more than pbooks. Because of encoding, software management and archiving etc.

LOL so which is it? They cost less ... they cost more.

That lot must do their encoding by hand - company can't afford operating systems like the rest of us...

[Catlady]

If HC is already feeling the need to rush out a statement, they must be getting a lot of backlash from librarians and library patrons. While it may not be likely, maybe's there's at least a glimmer of hope that they'll back down if there's enough pressure?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yes...

[Kali Yuga]

I know this will come as a surprise to many of you but if my understanding of pricing is correct, then the vitriol is a tad overstated.

Apparently Harper Collins sells the ebooks to the libraries at a 20% discount. In comparison, many publishers sell it at a 150% markup.

For a $10 ebook, this runs the library about 38¢ per checkout. The library also saves in that there are no overdue fees and minimal checkout time.

With other publishers, they may charge $25 for that ebook. The title would need to be checked out over 60 times before it becomes cheaper than the Harper Collins option.

For some of the high-demand best sellers, yes the single fee is better. For everything else, the HC option isn't that bad.


So, if it isn't necessarily cost, what are people reacting to then? I'd assume that the publishers are treating library ebooks like a license rather than a purchase.

I won't say this is great, but I do think it's not that bad, especially if the checkout durations are extended and the prices do drop as the demand for a specific title drops.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Dragon Tattoo: 35 copies, 113 patrons on waiting list.

OK, so 35 copies with 26 checkouts each = 910 checkouts.

If we presume 70 readers per month (35 copies x 2 week checkout period), that's 13 months before you'd have to re-purchase.

Let's say the HC library cost is $8 (a 20% discount on a $10 price, which is actually high for this title), and a non-HC blockbuster is $25 (150% markup).

HC costs you $280; non-HC costs you $875. You'd need to purchase this title 3 times over before it costs the same as the marked-up price.

If it is correct that HC does charge less and others charge more, financially it really is not looking like such a bad deal, even with a blockbuster best seller.

Again not necessarily a fantabulous deal but a) much better than the publishers that mark up their library prices and b) much better than publishers that refuse to allow ebook library lending at all.

[ATDrake]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

If we presume 70 readers per month (35 copies x 2 week checkout period), that's 13 months before you'd have to re-purchase.

Let's say the HC library cost is $8 (a 20% discount on a $10 price, which is actually high for this title), and a non-HC blockbuster is $25 (150% markup).

HC costs you $280; non-HC costs you $875. You'd need to purchase this title 3 times over before it costs the same as the marked-up price.

You're assuming what seems an artificially low price for the HC copy, paid for at what look like mass-market paperback prices when most new release bestsellers are hardcover which the Agency publishers usually insist on selling at $12.99+ e-retail (and the HC guy even says in his "open letter" that the lower pricing is posited to be available after a year's worth of the 26 expiries takes place).

And the library would still get only 1 year + 1 month's worth of usage out of the new-model HC book, whereas an old-model HC/non-HC book could stay in the catalogue for years.

Even if it's not a title that gets a mad initial rush (although the new e-books tend to be heavily put on hold with long-ish waiting lists, regardless of subjct matter; who knew that many people wanted all four copies of Vampire Knits: Projects to Keep You Knitting from Twilight to Dawn?), it would slowly earn back its keep over time and stay there for the enjoyment of the patrons without them having to worry it'll disappear if they don't get it *now*, or wonder if it's going to be one of the ones that the library won't bother to renew.

Sorting the available PDFs by "date added to site" from my library says that the oldest still available goes back to a late 2007 "release date", which seems roughly in tune with an old press release from one of the participating municipal systems which says that the "Library to Go" site is now open for audiobooks etc.

A lot of the books are personal reference-type stuff (Your First 100 Words in Persian, Various Crafts for Dummies) which it would benefit the library patrons to keep in relative perpetuity, even if they cost a rather higher initial outlay, and not to have expire after a mere 26 loans. And even the less popular and more obscure fiction would benefit from the gradual exposure over time.

Frankly, I kind of envision future e-listings looking rather like the multiply-stocked "Fast Reads/7-day Loan No Renewals $1 per day Overdue/Bestseller Express" shelf of the New Releases section if what gets acquired depends heavily on how many loans you'll get out of it before it expires.

It's a pretty bleak desert of briefly "hit" popular titles which all end up looking the same with little variety between them compared to the single-purchase non-bestseller new releases, which look by far more interesting to take home and read once you've indulged your Tom Clancy/James Patterson/Danielle Steel cravings.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I know this will come as a surprise to many of you but if my understanding of pricing is correct, then the vitriol is a tad overstated.

Apparently Harper Collins sells the ebooks to the libraries at a 20% discount. In comparison, many publishers sell it at a 150% markup.

For a $10 ebook, this runs the library about 38¢ per checkout. The library also saves in that there are no overdue fees and minimal checkout time.

Some interesting Math there, get the price down to a quarter and you got a deal!

[jhempel24]

To be honest, I think this is a good way to help circumvent pirating when checking out library books. Or at least recouping lost profits. So maybe not so much circumvent piracy.

I'm pretty sure there are people that just check them out, strip DRM and viola, they have a book for their library that won't be removed