02-21-2010, 10:31 AM | #31 | |
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02-21-2010, 10:34 AM | #32 | |
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Not really any different from purchasing anything else. |
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02-21-2010, 10:38 AM | #33 |
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Ralph - I think it's worth noting more strongly that the courts of appeals are geographical, and how rulings work. Rulings from the same circuit tend to be adhered to, and rulings from other circuits tend to be persuasive but are not binding.
Combined with different state laws, this is why you often get EULA's specifying they're under the laws of certain American states which have made rulings which suit the EULA. Also, Ralph, Vernor v Autodesk is being heard by the 9th Circuit's Court of Appeals, which is almost certain to produce a solid opinion on some of these issues (And it's significant because it's the largest Circuit, and is liberal-leaning). kennyc - Purchase data often misses details such as the original format, though. |
02-21-2010, 10:58 AM | #34 | |
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If I re-download those from a torrent (because, perhaps, it works better than direct downloading), what have I stolen--site hits? What's the value of the "theft" in that case? The same problem exists with paid ebooks--while there may be a record of my purchase somewhere (if they don't purge their records; physical stores don't keep a list of who-bought-what forever), there's no way to indicate that the ebook on my Sony right now was legitimately acquired. (If I ran a fictionwise multiformat book through Calibre to convert it or fix the metadata, was it legitimately acquired, or is that an unauthorized copy?) If I bought a multiformat book from Fictionwise but don't have it with me, and don't have access to login to re-download it, and I get a new copy from rapidshare, there's no way to prove that copy is not legit. (And again... what have I stolen? If I could login to Fictionwise, I could re-download it.) |
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02-21-2010, 11:10 AM | #35 | |
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A credit card purchase may not show the necessary detail. In addition, will you always carry all your purchasing details with your purchases as meta-data? This is particularly a problem with promotional "give-away" works for a period of time. For physical property, someone has to swear out a warrant, provide probable cause that I stole something, and accurately describe the item, usually down to the serial number. With a digital property, nothing is provable. I might be able to show I bought a digital copy, but there is nothing to prove that any particular copy is that copy. Not even the meta-data. It could be easily modified by any bit level editor. (For example HexEdit 3.0, available as a free download.) |
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02-21-2010, 11:13 AM | #36 | |
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Sorry DawnFalcon, it was too long a post to start with... (And I was unaware that Vernor was being heard by the appellate court.) |
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02-21-2010, 11:18 AM | #37 |
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Does anybody know how this "first sale" or "exhaustion of rights" principle applies in Canada? I'm particularly interested in this case... (duh). How about other countries?
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02-21-2010, 11:19 AM | #38 | |
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02-21-2010, 11:37 AM | #39 | |
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I do think it's important though...there's no guarantee of consistency in US law, it's more than a mild headache (And why many promotions simply don't run in the lower-population US states, heh). As to Vernor being heard, well, you know now pholy - In the EU, it's known as "Exhaustion of rights" (Although this also addresses some wider IP rights, confusingly enough) |
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02-21-2010, 11:45 AM | #40 | |
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Many are done through PayPal, which links to my bank account, which links to my identity... unless I close that bank account & shut off that PayPal account. The records are still there, but it'd take a court order to get them, *and* they'd be difficult to legally link to me in the future--if I move to another city, change my account info, change my name (all of which many women do when they get married), there's no proof that I made that purchase. But tracking a legal purchase isn't the problem. The problem is that the *ebook itself* contains no purchase info. There's a record, somewhere, that I bought "Search for the Sun." However, that record doesn't prove that all the copies of it on my hard drive--lrf, epub, pdb, and pdf--are legitimate downloads based on that purchase. Unless there's a claim that "purchasing an ebook gives you the right to download additional copies of it, from any source, at will," this is problematic. (At least, problematic for publishers who want to file lawsuits against those who have unauthorized copies.) |
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02-21-2010, 11:46 AM | #41 | |
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02-21-2010, 11:47 AM | #42 |
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I've got some books here I bought years ago with a credit card I no longer have issued by a bank I no longer use, sold by a publisher that went out of business years ago, and the purchase trail goes to an email address that no longer exists. Validating that would be a major pain.
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02-21-2010, 11:50 AM | #43 |
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I've bought an eBook. I've deleted the email receipt. The company that sold it is out of business or no longer has the records to say they've sold it to me. So how can it be proven that this was or was not a legally obtained eBook?
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02-21-2010, 11:52 AM | #44 | |
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If I sell my house, and the construction company keeps sending me new sets of keys, that's not my problem. Doesn't mean I can't sell the house. If I use those keys, I'm guilty of trespassing--but having potential access isn't the same as breaking the law. |
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02-21-2010, 01:00 PM | #45 | |
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Personally, I feel I should have the right to sell eBooks that I no longer will read again that I legally obtained. But is it legal to format shift and sell the newly format shifted copy? Can I sell the original with the format shifted copy? Can I sell without DRM since I've striped it? If I don't sell with the DRM shifted, I'll never get to sell it. |
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