Okay, Are there really any iPad alternatives?

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by scottjl

but Amazon's already demonstrated ability to yank your content off your device without notice. So you trade Jobs for Bezos.

Not sure if your trolling or mean this as a serious statement, but there is no way you can compare the iPad restrictions to Amazon's. There have been a few (actually only one that I recall) cases where Amazon withdrew content. In this case it was a legal issue. According to law, Amazon should not have sold what it already sold. Furthermore, Amazon has said they wouldn't do that again. Amazon did not make an editorial decision to remove said content.

In the case of Apple, there is no legal justification. Apple decides what is good for you. Sometimes it has moral issues. Other times it doesn't like satire. At times it has competitive concerns. Or performance concerns. Apple just seems to have a wide range of reasons for refusing content that doesn't meet its criteria.

[Noah98]

From my experience, right now there are three great devices for different user needs.

Although the future is bright for new technology in ereaders, good alternatives to these devices will not arrive anytime soon what with companies starting to reevaluate their strategies. Hp canceled the Slate and bought Palm, Microsoft shelved the Courier, and cash-in products like the Archos 9 and Camangi Webstation are just terrible.

To me, the following are great right now:

ipad (fast boot, decent battery life)

1. Video is fantastic. Youtube, Netflix, and ABC Player all provide more than enough entertainment for this multipurpose device. The screen is bright, colorful, clear, and has great contrast.

2. Internet is amazing. Web is speedy and the 4:3 screen makes browsing a joy. Easy to zoom and great formatting. The lack of Flash might be a downer for some, but honestly the majority of sites work great and Flash is not missed.

3. App store provides lots of extra functions and some cheap entertainment.

4. ereading does what it does well. ibooks, Kindle, Marvel and upcoming Barnes and Noble app all provide a good experience. Everything is speedy, and low light reading is now possible. However, formats are limited. But, if you have Calibre you can just covert to epub and you are good to go.

5. Gaming is a lot of fun. Plants vs. Zombies!

Negatives: Kind of big, closed OS, expensive, lacks ports, not a great word processing experience, no real multitasking.

Asus T91mt

The Asus T91mt is the best of the windows 7 tablets. It is small (smaller than the ipad but thicker), and very versatile. The problem for some is that they expect it to perform well out of the box like an ipad or dedicated ereader. The T91mt works great, but only after serious optimization. The following steps will make it a contender:

1. Skin Windows 7 with a touch friendly interface. This makes it feel more like the ipad or an android device. I highly recommend Blue Dolphin (see eeeuser.com boards for link). This interface makes it a joy to use in tablet mode.

2. Use Firefox with extensions. Firefox + Grab and Drag + Adblocker plus + User Agent Switcher + Blump'it make for a great web experience only rivaled by the ipad which is faster and has the 4:3 screen. However, the T91mt has Flash and multiple browser support. Grab and drag allows touch scrolling with inertia. Adblock plus speeds things up. User agent switcher lets you default to ipad or iphone optimized sites (great for portrait browsing). Blump'it is an alpha extension that transforms Firefox into an icon based Web OS interface. It's pretty cool to play around with (and easy to disable when desired) and has a lot of potential. The only negative is that the 16:9 screen means that portrait browsing is less than ideal. Also, pinch zooming isn't as smooth as on the ipad.

3. Setup Flicks. With the flick of your finger you can go back a page, forward a page, page up, page down, F11 fullscreen, etc. This makes web browsing work seamlessly. You can customize Flicks however you want. This also allows for easy page turning in ereading software that is not touchscreen optimized.

4. Update the GMA 500 video drivers to allow for better HD video acceleration. Streaming video is still hit or miss, but overall video works well enough but doesn't compare with the ipad. Still, Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc. all work fine.

5. Download the Microsoft Touch Pack for some fun free apps. You can also use many of the power toys for XP tablet edition (all free).

6. Download and install the Microsoft Origami Experience 2.0. This make scrolling bars and windows more touch friendly. It also has some other cool tricks (free).

7. Download and install Tablet Tools (eee user board). This allows for quick and easy rotation, brightness, sound, and battery control.

8. Install 2gb of Ram (This is practically required).

9. Optimize Windows 7. The best way is to clean install from scratch and then just add what you want. However, I didn't even have to go that far. I just disabled the Touch Gate and eee Dock from startup (I like them sometimes so I didn't feel like uninstalling). Uninstall eee storage. Disable things like aero peek, but keep the default Aero theme (for some reason this makes scrolling smoother). Disable unnecessary services (go to the Blackviper website for info on what to do), make sure startup is limited to what is needed (disable things from apple, google, adobe, etc.).

10. Setup good ereading software. Ereader Pro is my favorite. Kindle works fine, but could use some polish (update is rumored to be coming soon). There are tons to choose from. Also, Adobe Digital editions allows you to check out ebooks from many local libraries. Another cool app is MMCE for Comic books. This app makes comic book reading a wonderful experience with good touchscreen support. ComicRack now works well with the T91mt, and supports multitouch.

11. Buy Plants vs. Zombies. Best tablet game ever.

12. Update Flash to 10.1

Negatives: Thickness and weight, slower processor, needs heavy optimization, battery life worse than ipad/dedicated ereader, expensive $480 + ram upgrade cost.

Nook (Excellent form factor, battery life, cool interface)

I've played around with the Kindle, Sony readers, Entourage Edge (good for students I guess, but otherwise pass) and the Nook. With the recent firmware update the Nook is the best of the dedicated eink ereaders. The screen looks fantastic (can read in full sunlight, no eye fatigue), page turning is relatively snappy, it is thin and light and does what it does well. Also, it is more versatile compared with other ereaders like the Kindle. Formats are more open (epub, ADE from Library, etc.), basic web browser, and app support (Chess is pretty fun!). If you just want a reader, this is the best that I have experienced. Also, it is much cheaper than an ipad or tablet.

Negatives: Black and White screen, limited multimedia support (no video), an external light is required if you want to read at night or in low light situations.

So, if you are just looking for great ereader, buy a Nook (Check it out at Best Buy and see if it wins you over).

If you want a great media/entertainment device or prefer backlit reading, buy an ipad (play with one at the Apple store or some Best Buys).

Or, if you want a computer that is also a reader and a tablet (jack of all trades), buy an Asus eee T91mt (Amazon.com).

Just my two cents based on ownership and experience

BTW, anyone who trashes the Asus, optimize it first (see above) and tell me if you change your mind. I believe someone posted that Windows 7 isn't very touch friendly. After Blue Dolphin, Origami, etc. I think you might see the potential.

Edit: ***I now own a Nook too

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by emellaich

Not sure if your trolling or mean this as a serious statement, but there is no way you can compare the iPad restrictions to Amazon's. There have been a few (actually only one that I recall) cases where Amazon withdrew content. In this case it was a legal issue. According to law, Amazon should not have sold what it already sold. Furthermore, Amazon has said they wouldn't do that again. Amazon did not make an editorial decision to remove said content.

In the case of Apple, there is no legal justification. Apple decides what is good for you. Sometimes it has moral issues. Other times it doesn't like satire. At times it has competitive concerns. Or performance concerns. Apple just seems to have a wide range of reasons for refusing content that doesn't meet its criteria.

i wasn't trolling. it was a serious statement. yes amazon has only done this once. but fact is, they have done it, where apple has not.

and yes. apple has all sorts of restrictions on content they allow into their store, but guess what. we know this in advance. developers know this, and people who buy their products know this. so if you don't agree with it, simply don't buy their products.

i'm sure amazon, in their fine print, said somewhere that they could yank content off your device at any time, but it's something else to do it. and yes, they had a legal obligation to do so after the seller wasn't authorized to sell the content, but amazon could have handled it far differently than they had, than sneaking into your house in the middle of the night and removing a book from your bookshelf.

so you can't really say amazon treads any moral high ground here, or that apple does either. i was simply pointing out that all of the companies out there are pretty much equally bad.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Noah98

BTW, anyone who trashes the Asus, optimize it first (see above) and tell me if you change your mind. I believe someone posted that Windows 7 isn't very touch friendly. After Blue Dolphin, Origami, etc. I think you might see the potential.

First, thanks for the excellent review as an actual owner of all 3 devices. +25 Karma to you!

My only problem with this last statement is how many people are going to know about doing these tweaks and getting these additions..? Does Asus direct you to any of this OOTB or did you discover all of this on your own? How difficult was it to track down the files and install? Are they removable? I'm tempted to try and install these mods on my 1000H (with a self-installed touch-screen) just to check them out.

An advantage for the Nook and the iPad is they are pretty much OOTB, other than firmware updates, which for both devices is pretty painless.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Hmm.. I don't get the benefit of running a "full" operating system (which is misleading as the iPad OS is not "half" an operating system) and then stripping out most of it in order to get decent performance.

The point is, YOU get to decide which half of the OS you are not going to use.
Operating systems today come with lots and lots of unnecessary things enabled by default, in case the user needs to use them. For ordinary use you can strip off 80% of default stuff and get mean, lean, very reliable system.

My first e-book reader was an old, really, really obsolete notebook. It had display with 640x480 pixels, each of which supported whooping 265 shades of grey. 2MB of RAM. Way below 100MHz procesor speed. Originally it didn't even have harddisk (the original harddisk was burned out, just like battery. This was probably reason, together with really old age ;-), why such wonderful computer ended up in a trash, where I could salvage it). I prepared a bootable floppy with DOS system, simple text viewing app and one book (or a part of a book).
Later I managed to get a second-hand 800MB disk for it and I decided to install Linux on it.
I had to strip off something like 90% of the standard operating system (Linux) to be able to run it, yet, nobody told me what I am allowed to do with MY computer. Originally it it was running DOS, but I wanted a system that would support more than 8.3 characters in filenames. The beauty of the Basic Linux distribution based on a very old version of Slackware - the last one to provide 2.0 Linux kernel - was that you could tweak and optimize just about anything. And it never, *ever* crashed. Worked like a charm for years. The only thing I didn't like was the backlit display.

This is why I find it strange when people complain that modern computers are not fast enough, or that there is not enough memory or storage speed on a Book reading device. Once uppon a time 66MHz 486 with 2 megs of RAM was good enough for a serious server supporting a dozen users working simultaneously on a company financial system.

Now, get off my lawn, dammit ...

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by Noah98

BTW, anyone who trashes the Asus, optimize it first (see above) and tell me if you change your mind. I believe someone posted that Windows 7 isn't very touch friendly. After Blue Dolphin, Origami, etc. I think you might see the potential.

Yeah, after a lot of optimization, it might work better. But really, do people really want to do that?
In the end, does the startup time change to instant on, or will rotating screen actually be fluid, or will the screen becomes a couple of inches larger, or will the screen change to IPS technology, or will battery time actually be on par to the ipad?

Seriously not meant as an attack of some sort, but after all those tweaking, it'd still be comparing apples to oranges.

This is why I find it strange when people complain that modern computers are not fast enough, or that there is not enough memory or storage speed on a Book reading device. Once uppon a time 66MHz 486 with 2 megs of RAM was good enough for a serious server supporting a dozen users working simultaneously on a company financial system.

Now, get off my lawn, dammit ...

That's the problem with IT. Every time hardware becomes faster, the software will also be more demanding.

One argument I had at work was over this statement "we don't need to spend time to optimize the software, because we can always upgrade the hardware". In the end, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one paying for the hardware OR the software.

But I know that when I program something for myself and I'm going for speed, I'll test it on some extreme limited hardware. Heck, there was a period where I tested my website on a Pentium 166 with 80MB RAM. It was speedy enough for 50 simultaneous stimulated users pounding on it. When the website went live on a quadcore machine with 8GB RAM, it literally flies. Even when 5000 users were pounding on it.

And that's probably one of the reason why a lot of IT-people are looking down on the ipad. It's using a phone OS they say. Not realizing that an OS that is optimized for a relatively slow smartphone, will be flying on the iPad-platform.

(instead of trying to put a heavy family car body on a 0.8 city car engine, why not put a lightweight city car body on strong engine?)

[scottjl]

lol. you want to start comparing old systems my first personal computer at my house was an apple ][ with a 1mhz 6502 and 4k of ram. i loaded programs off of audio cassette.

yes. i love to tinker (run several linux servers in my house for everything from multimedia servers to a professional testing lab) but on the other hand the general public doesn't have the knowledge or the time to tinker. they just want to buy something "that works". hence the popularity of kindles, nooks, ipads, sony readers, etc.

linux 2.0 might be gone, but if you want to back to unix roots you can always run BSD.. or you could always go back to multics (my first OS) or CP/M..

btw. the apple ][ is in storage in my basement, i dig it out now and then, and it still works need to reseat chips once in a while, clean the cassette player with some alcohol, but it is functional.. as is my //e and other equipment i've kept over the years. surprisingly some elephant brand 5.25" floppies are still readable after 30+ years. elephants never forget..

[Noah98]

"Yeah, after a lot of optimization, it might work better. But really, do people really want to do that?
In the end, does the startup time change to instant on, or will rotating screen actually be fluid, or will the screen becomes a couple of inches larger, or will the screen change to IPS technology, or will battery time actually be on par to the ipad?"

1. It does work much better (not just a little ) However, no, the general user is not going to want to do all of that. Really they should buy an ipad or a Nook.

2. The startup time does not become instant on (it is pretty short though post optimization), but it does wake from sleep in like 3 seconds. I mostly leave it in sleep mode and plug it in when I'm not using it. Actually, we don't really ever shutdown our ipad or iphones either, just put them to sleep.

3. The rotating screen is very fluid. Never had a problem with that at all. It's fast and can rotate in all directions. Also, Tablet Tools makes it work with a simple tap.

4. The screen is not as good as the ipad's, but quite good for most things. Again, it is still a netbook and the form factor necessitates the trade offs with screen/battery.

I would only recommend the Asus to the type of user that wants a computer too. The Nook is a great ereader, and the ipad is a great overall entertainment device. Neither one is a computer and they both are meant for different purposes.

All three devices provide a great experience for different types of users.

[Noah98]

Originally Posted by scottjl

First, thanks for the excellent review as an actual owner of all 3 devices. +25 Karma to you!

My only problem with this last statement is how many people are going to know about doing these tweaks and getting these additions..? Does Asus direct you to any of this OOTB or did you discover all of this on your own? How difficult was it to track down the files and install? Are they removable? I'm tempted to try and install these mods on my 1000H (with a self-installed touch-screen) just to check them out.

An advantage for the Nook and the iPad is they are pretty much OOTB, other than firmware updates, which for both devices is pretty painless.

Well, the reality is that if you want an open device, you have to be willing to tweak it to fit your purposes. The Asus T91mt can do a lot more than the other devices, but out of the box you would never know it. The user must seek out what the user needs. Asus does little to promote how the device can be used. A general user should stick to the ipad or the Nook because everything just works and is easy to find.

I discovered everything by doing basic google searches and posting on both Mobileread and eeeuser.com.

The files were all easy to find and install. Also, they can all be uninstalled without any problems.

Honestly, it didn't take long to get the Asus going after I found out about the things that I posted. In a way, my post saved future users a lot of blind searching.

Being sort of a gadget hound, I really enjoyed messing around with the T91mt to see if I could get it to do what I wanted. It was like a mini competition between my wife's ipad and the rogue tablet. In the end, the ipad still does many things better (basic web browsing, video, ereading) but the Asus now more than holds its own. Also, it's actually a computer too.

[WillAdams]

Noah98, interesting list / commentary.

You're missing two categories, which I believe Sony covers well:

Small, Simple, inexpensive pocketable --- Sony PRS-300

Free-form annotation on-the-go --- Sony PRS-600

William

[kennyc]

Just saw a consumer reports segment on the news about ebook readers. (they included the ipad even though it's not an ebook reader)

Their choice: The Kindle2

[Noah98]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

Noah98, interesting list / commentary.

You're missing two categories, which I believe Sony covers well:

Small, Simple, inexpensive pocketable --- Sony PRS-300

Free-form annotation on-the-go --- Sony PRS-600

William

Well, I really didn't like the interface of the PRS-300. Also, until recently it wasn't much cheaper than the Nook. I think it is fine as a basic, cheap device but my list was more or less a "best in class" one. The Nook pretty much blows it away for a little more money.

As for the PRS-600, I did not like the display (nowhere near as clear as the Kindle or Nook and it even had glare!) at all. Also, the touch interface was a tad sluggish. The Asus T91mt is far better for annotation and inking (especially with the newest version of Penwrite). Yes, it is a bigger device (although still relatively small) but I think it can handle free-form annotation quite well. Sleep mode makes it a viable on-the-go device as well. Also, I think the PRS-600 is way overpriced for what it offers.

Again, this is all just my two cents based on ownership and usage!

[Noah98]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Just saw a consumer reports segment on the news about ebook readers. (they included the ipad even though it's not an ebook reader)

Their choice: The Kindle2

I imagine that was before the Nook's firmware update...

[ChrisC333]

Originally Posted by Noah98

Well, the reality is that if you want an open device, you have to be willing to tweak it to fit your purposes. The Asus T91mt can do a lot more than the other devices, but out of the box you would never know it. The user must seek out what the user needs. Asus does little to promote how the device can be used. A general user should stick to the ipad or the Nook because everything just works and is easy to find.

Thanks for all your great summaries above, and for the useful details about how you tweaked the Asus.

There's always going to be a very wide range of difference preferences among buyers. That much won’t ever change. For those armed with patience and knowledge, the range of options are already huge, especially if their core requirement is text based reading. But at the other end of the spectrum there are inevitably plenty of people who will try and demand an enormously wide range of features, some of which would actually be mutually exclusive if you tried to implement them all.

If what I see on the internet is any guide, not many buyers really have reading books at the top of their list. In fact, this newly announced device is designed with that in mind.

News Announcement

It’s interesting to see that since this thread began the Courier has apparently been ditched, as has the HP Slate. This is sad to hear, but is in line with the general idea that the situation has a good while to run yet before it reaches maturity.

In the meantime, my 12" HP Touchsmart still seems like a good choice for my needs. I get the advantages of the Asus, but without the need to do much customising (until I feel like doing it.... ) and the decent screen size also allows the freedom to resize a variety of content to a suitable ratio without getting too small. The weight and price would bother some, but fortunately both are within my very flexible preferences. My guess is that by the time a temptingly superior replacement comes along, it will have comfortably paid for itself in enjoyable hours used.

Cheers,

Chris

Soon to be Retired, Rich and Reading at an undisclosed location...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

My cell phone has almost the same amount of power as the iPad, and can run essentially the same software. If I want a bigger screen or need to do some typing I can use my laptop (which is as portable as an iPad) or a netbook with more power and more possibilities than an iPad for a lower price tag.

No laptop that I know of is as portable as an iPad. And your netbook's and laptop's battery will be dead before the iPad's.