Mobi vs. ePub

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With respect, those are primarily features of the reading device, not of the format. Eg, both the Sony PRS-600 and the BeBook Neo support all those features for ePub files.

I agree, except maybe on the dictionnary support. I understand this is not well supported currently in ePub. I'm not sure what that means exactly, but I think it has to do with identifying different forms of the same word, such as conjugations for verbs, plural etc.

I bought a dictionnary in mobi format, and when reading a mobi book this allows me to find, say, "readers" because the dictionnary includes "readers" as a form of "reader". As far as I know (but I may be wrong) this feature is not supported in ePub.

On, for instance, the Pocketbook 360, there is a dictionary function that more or less works around this by showing words that have the same beginning as the one I am looking for. This works in the case of "readers" and "reader", but it may not work so well in other cases. For example in French, the verb "prendre" can have forms such as "pris", "prise", "prenez". I'm not sure there is a dictionary in ePub format that could handle these forms. Or is there?

[afa]

Originally Posted by =X=

If you go to FeedBooks you can download both an ePUB and MOBI version of the same book and see which format you like most.

Thanks for that, =X=. I'm going to give that a shot.

Can anyone tell me which software to use to read these on my computer (I don't have an ereader)? I'm using an iMac with OS X (Leopard).

[HarryT]

There's no Mobi Reader for Mac, as far as I know. My favourite ePub reader is the Sony eBook Library software; I prefer it to ADE.

[FlorenceArt]

Doesn't Amazon's Kindle reader have a Mac version now? I suppose it can read non-DRM mobis?

I also think Calibre can read mobi, but I'm not sure how practical it is as a reader.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Doesn't Amazon's Kindle reader have a Mac version now? I suppose it can read non-DRM mobis?

Yes, it can.

[HarryT]

Thanks; I didn't know about that.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With respect, those are primarily features of the reading device, not of the format. Eg, both the Sony PRS-600 and the BeBook Neo support all those features for ePub files.

I suppose you can make that argument. But I've always considered MOBI files as a combo of MOBI/MDP files where the mobile was the text and the MDP was the annotation/bookmarks that went along with that file.

Most MOBI readers I've used Kindle and Mobipocket's all support the MOBI/MDP format interchangably. So when I copy MOBI/MDP files from my MobiPocket reader and the Kindle reader all my annotations and bookmarks are viewed and modifyable.

In Sony's solution all bookmarks/annotations are saved in an XML file on the reader. There is no easy way to transfer the data. Also bookmarks are not preserved across all fonts, you have a bookmark per font size. This is due to the fact that the bookmark annotation system is not tied into the file format. (I suppose you can argue that SONY just implemented Bookmarks/annotations poorly).


=X=

[mooxoo]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you explain what you mean by that? The Mobi file format certainly supports a linked table of contents.

Really? Maybe I haven't been creating it properly. All I get is a HTML file either at the beginning (my tailored preference) or at the end (automatically created using Mobipocket Creator) with links.

In my epub I create a toc.ncx file which tells the respective reader my table of contents in addition to the HTML file. Depending on the reader software, this table of contents can be accessed from anywhere in the book without having to go back to the HTML table of contents page.

If this feature can be included in a mobi file then I would very much like to learn how to do it.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by mooxoo

Really? Maybe I haven't been creating it properly. All I get is a HTML file either at the beginning (my tailored preference) or at the end (automatically created using Mobipocket Creator) with links.

In Mobipocket Creator you have to define a toc guide item for this HTML file, so when you look for a Table of contents it goes there, the same way you're describing.

[HarryT]

To expand a little on what Terera said, in Mobipocket Creator, go to the "Guide" tab, and fill it in as follows:

Title: Table of Contents (this is what will appear on the "Goto" menu in Mobi Reader).
Type: toc (select this from the drop-down list)
Filename: book.html#toc

This last entry is the hyperlink to your table of contents. If it's a separate file, it can just be a filename; if it's a page within your book, you'd mark it in the HTML with:

<A name=toc></A>

and then, as shown, reference it as "book.html#toc". You can of course use whatever name you wish; I use "toc" since it matches the guide type.

Once you've filled in the page, don't forget to click the "Update" button at the bottom to write the changes to your OPF file.

Now, after you've built your book, you should have an active "Table of Contents" link. On the Windows Mobi Reader, this will be an item on the "Goto" menu. On other devices, there will be a dedicated "Table of Contents" button or menu item. Either way, it should now be "active".

While you're editing your "Guide" page, you may wish to add a cover image for your book. To do this, fill in another line as follows:

Title: Cover Image
Type: other.ms-coverimage
Filename: cover.jpg (or whatever your cover image is called)

Make sure that the cover image file is in the same folder as the OPF file. This cover image will now show up in the "Library" view of any Mobi reader and, once again, if your reading device has a navigation link to display the cover image, it should be active.

Important note

If you add a cover image, do not include it on the "Publication Files" page of Mobi Creator (this applies to all other illustrations in the book, too). If you do, the image will be included in the file twice.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's not strictly true. There's no device which can read both simultaneously, but Bookeen's devices offer two firmware versions, one of which can read ePub DRM and the other Mobi DRM, and it takes only a couple of minutes to switch between them.

Just expanding on this observation, you can also load various firmware versions onto the Hanlin V3 family of devices (BeBook, Aztak, LBook, etc.) in the same manner - BeBook provides both 'old' (Mobi DRM) and 'new' (latest ADE supported DRM firmware) for download.

I guess with the newer generation of readers (PocketBook family, Opus, etc.) only support ADE, so you have to DeDRM any Mobi files you have or wish to buy.

To be honest, I have relented a little in my distaste for ePub - the format as a concept is fine, but I think overly-complex for about 90+ % of eBook needs - after all, an eBook is a bunch of text on a page with some chapter headings, a title, and a cover, that's about it. In principle, ePub allows links/footnotes and so on, which is nice, but so did Mobi.

But the reader implementation is still nothing less than utter crap. ADE is a disasterous piece of garbage that makes a farce of the joys of reading an eBook - the ePub format offers exceptional flexibility which ADE promptly restricts. If the ePub is created well it can bypass some of the issues - embedding a decent font and specifying good page margining, etc.

But as a user of the FB2 format I am used to almost limitless reader/display flexibility. Even the old CoolReader and FBReader versions offered variable font sizes and font faces, margin settings, hyphenation/justification settings, and so on. ADE offers almost none of these (unless, as I said, the ePub is well made and exploits the embedded format features, which is currently rare).

So in the end, users are still somewhat obliged to strip the DRM if they wish to read ePub files with another reader on their device (such as FBReader), or possibly convert to a more reader-friendly format?

I admit I am a staunch FB2 supporter - it was the first format I used on my old Acer n10 PDA with Haali Reader, and quite frankly it still stands the test of time for eBook purposes. Some improvements could be made in expanding the formatting definitions allowed (allowing 'prettier' ebooks to be made) and footnote/endnote/links should be improved. But the simple XML format has proven itself to be flexible and usable for almost all normal eBook needs, and it is still widely supported for development and as a book format of choice in Russian-language regions.

I guess because it is DRM-free it was never taken up in the English language or western regions as a viable format for commercial uses, although as I understood it DRM could be applied over any file so I guess there are other reasons for this.

EDIT: One last point I just noted, the TIRWAL Triple-Boot firmware (v2.9) for Hanlin V3 devices apparently supports Mobi & ADE DRM - I have not tested this but I'm sure there are some MR members that can give some feedback of how it is...

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

I guess with the newer generation of readers (PocketBook family, Opus, etc.) only support ADE, so you have to DeDRM any Mobi files you have or wish to buy.

The Opus at least does support mobi, although it comes loaded with the epub firmware. I just changed to the mobi formware, after a few weeks of coping with uncomfortable or just plain unreadable epub books.

I'm told that ePub is the format of the future, and I have no reason to doubt that. But what I'm interested in is books that I can read now, without the formatting getting (too much) in the way. When we get a majority of beautiful and readable ePubs I will change back. For the moment I'll stick to mobi and just convert the epubs I buy.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

The Opus at least does support mobi, although it comes loaded with the epub firmware. I just changed to the mobi formware, after a few weeks of coping with uncomfortable or just plain unreadable epub books.

I'm told that ePub is the format of the future, and I have no reason to doubt that. But what I'm interested in is books that I can read now, without the formatting getting (too much) in the way. When we get a majority of beautiful and readable ePubs I will change back. For the moment I'll stick to mobi and just convert the epubs I buy.

One last point I just noted and added in my previous post above - the TIRWAL Triple-Boot firmware (v2.9) for Hanlin V3 devices apparently supports Mobi & ADE DRM - I have not tested this but I'm sure there are some MR members that can give some feedback of how it is...