Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > ePub

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-27-2009, 05:52 PM   #46
netseeker
sleepless reader
netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
netseeker's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,763
Karma: 615547
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany, near Stuttgart
Device: Sony PRS-505, PB 360° & 302, nook wi-fi, Kindle 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valloric View Post
And yet you cannot pigeonhole the standard to 2007 and set arbitrary limits on content files. Ten years from now (probably a lot sooner) even embedded devices will have more than enough resources to parse any kind of epub file, so such limitations would be a hindrance.
Sorry if i'm interfering but nobody says that they should include limitations. Though they could make clear what is the expected handling on devices with low resources. Sax and StAX, HTTP 1.1, MIME and a lot other specifications provide implicit solutions for low-resource devices. Why should a format specification like ePub doesn't take care of such concerns?

From the OPS specification:
Quote:
The specification is intended to give content providers (e.g. publishers, authors, and others who have content to be displayed) and publication tool providers, minimal and common guidelines that ensure fidelity, accuracy, accessibility, and adequate presentation of electronic content over various Reading Systems.
netseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:06 PM   #47
Valloric
Created Sigil, FlightCrew
Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Valloric's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,982
Karma: 350515
Join Date: Feb 2008
Device: Kobo Clara HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by netseeker View Post
Though they could make clear what is the expected handling on devices with low resources.
Tell me, what do you think should be the expected handling for huge single file epub books on a device like the Sony Reader?
Valloric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #48
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,771
Karma: 22666666
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by =X= View Post
For me it's not so much SONY's 300KB file size limit that cause me concern, itt's the failed expectation that as long as I have an ePUB file I can read it on any ePUB device.
But that's unrealistic, you cant both have flexibilty and "read on any device", because flexibility requires processing power/memory to back it up. In the long run, I think flexibility is far more important that read anywhere.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #49
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,771
Karma: 22666666
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valloric View Post
Tell me, what do you think should be the expected handling for huge single file epub books on a device like the Sony Reader?
fallback to non CSS based rendering. in that case you dont have to load the whle html tree into memory
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:11 PM   #50
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
As for the question of extensions, I think having one extension with various incompatible DRM schemes is an excellent thing. The time of ebooks and EPUB has come, nothing is going to stop them. This sort of craziness will hurt only one thig, DRM.
The problem, though, is that the same extension is also used for DRM-free ePubs. Perhaps we should use .epubf (or .fpub) for DRM-free ePubs and not worry about what the DRM vendors are doing. We would then need a logo and icon for DRM-free ePubs. This is =X='s branding point, but I don't see IDPF as likely to take the lead.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:18 PM   #51
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 73,645
Karma: 127838196
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The problem, though, is that the same extension is also used for DRM-free ePubs. Perhaps we should use .epubf (or .fpub) for DRM-free ePubs and not worry about what the DRM vendors are doing. We would then need a logo and icon for DRM-free ePubs. This is =X='s branding point, but I don't see IDPF as likely to take the lead.
So why not also do the same for all the other formats?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:19 PM   #52
netseeker
sleepless reader
netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.netseeker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
netseeker's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,763
Karma: 615547
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany, near Stuttgart
Device: Sony PRS-505, PB 360° & 302, nook wi-fi, Kindle 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valloric View Post
Tell me, what do you think should be the expected handling for huge single file epub books on a device like the Sony Reader?
Well, i'm not a contributor of the ePub-specification and can only speak for myself. Why doesn't the reading software use a stax-like aproach when parsing XHTML for example? Why does the epub-producer have to split the file into parts if just those parts that are required could be read? It's not easy to implement such solutions (not because of the XML but because of the CSS-selectors for example) but developers do this day for day if they know that the targeted plattform is low on resources. A specification can take account of such concerns and include (or point to) best practices for such scenarios. It can also explain such scenarios in a more abstract manner than i did here.
netseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:22 PM   #53
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by =X= View Post
For me it's not so much SONY's 300KB file size limit that cause me concern, itt's the failed expectation that as long as I have an ePUB file I can read it on any ePUB device.
It is certainly a failure on Adobe's part that they will add their DRM to an ePub which isn't readable by their own mobile Adobe Digital Editions.

For DRM-free ePubs the situation is a bit different. Anyone can call their ebook an ePub, and there will be "standard conforming" ePubs that don't display on all devices. On the other hand, Calibre has demonstrated that a desktop-based format shifter can customize an ePub for a given device and Savory on the Kindle 2 is an indication that the same could be done on handheld devices directly.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:23 PM   #54
Valloric
Created Sigil, FlightCrew
Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Valloric's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,982
Karma: 350515
Join Date: Feb 2008
Device: Kobo Clara HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
fallback to non CSS based rendering. in that case you dont have to load the whle html tree into memory
Then you would have users complaining how the epub doesn't display properly.
Valloric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:27 PM   #55
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,975
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
So why not also do the same for all the other formats?
We could, but ePub is the only one not owned by a single vendor. I don't know that there is the same expectation that a DRM-free MOBI (say) will be readable by non-MobiPocket readers.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #56
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,771
Karma: 22666666
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valloric View Post
Then you would have users complaining how the epub doesn't display properly.
Better than complaining tha it doesn't display at all
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2009, 09:32 AM   #57
Moejoe
Banned
Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.Moejoe did not drink the Kool Aid.
 
Posts: 5,100
Karma: 72193
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South of the Border
Device: Coffin
How about:

.epub = non-drm

.crap = with drm

No confusion there
Moejoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2009, 10:17 AM   #58
ilovejedd
hopeless n00b
ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ilovejedd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ilovejedd's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,111
Karma: 19597086
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the middle of nowhere
Device: PW4, PW3, Libra H2O, iPad 10.5, iPad 11, iPad 12.9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
How about:
.epub = non-drm
.crap = with drm
No confusion there
I heartily agree.
ilovejedd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #59
tirsales
MIA ... but returning som
tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tirsales ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
tirsales's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,600
Karma: 511342
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Germany
Device: PRS-505 and *Really* not owning a PRS-700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
.epub = non-drm

.crap = with drm
Wonderful! Two small words, describing whatever needed
Just add some kind of X (.crapA for Adobe crap, .crapF for Fictionwise crap, etc)
tirsales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2009, 12:26 PM   #60
=X=
Wizard
=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
=X='s Avatar
 
Posts: 3,671
Karma: 12205348
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The problem, though, is that the same extension is also used for DRM-free ePubs. Perhaps we should use .epubf (or .fpub) for DRM-free ePubs and not worry about what the DRM vendors are doing. We would then need a logo and icon for DRM-free ePubs. This is =X='s branding point, but I don't see IDPF as likely to take the lead.
That's a great idea! What a V8 moment. We have some talented graphic artists here anybody want to take a first stab?

I'll create a new thread.

=X=
=X= is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OpenOffice to ePub export extension eBookLuke Writer2ePub 206 12-18-2010 05:02 PM
iPad Epub with DRM ebooks for the Ipad hippoherder Apple Devices 29 08-22-2010 08:22 PM
ShineBook Mobile eBook Reader announced in Germany, reads both DRM-prc + DRM-ePub ... K-Thom News 11 12-12-2009 06:50 AM
On why DRM ebooks are good! markbot Lounge 19 05-09-2009 10:17 PM
OpenBerg FireFox extension for ePub wallcraft Reading and Management 20 10-05-2007 11:24 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:52 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.