... And now Vanity Press for eBooks ... Yuck! - Page 2

simonroyle · 10-18-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Nor do I. One of the truely revolutionary aspects of eBook technology is the democratization of publishing. Does that mean a lot of dreck gets published? You bet! But it also means more people have more chances to get their views distributed.

The difference is here that they are charging someone 90 dollars - hence me calling it Vanity - on the idea that they'll become a bestseller. There's a distinction - I am ALL for ebooks, bring it on, I'm not for people getting fooled.

rhadin · 10-18-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Regretably, your description applies to the majority of independently published books. Most are not edited at all, let alone reaching the "heights" of being merely poorly edited.

Sadly, Harry, you are correct. And it isn't getting any better.

L.J. Sellers · 10-18-2010, 09:41 AM

Simon is right in calling it a vanity press, because it charges clients for its publishing service, provides the ISBN (and therefore is the publisher), and makes false promises. However, the $90 fee is inline with what someone would pay independently for the service of creating an e-book (epub file) from an original Word document. So it's not a ripoff vanity press, like those that charge hundreds for the simple process of creating a print file and registering the title in the databases.
L.J.

bobavey · 10-19-2010, 01:44 PM

It would be interesting to look five or ten years into the future to see where this apparent ebook revolution will lead.

Beneath a Buried House

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003SE7J6I

Steven Lake · 10-19-2010, 04:09 PM

This might seem like a really stupid question, but why would anyone actually *need* a publisher when it comes to ebooks? I mean, come on. If you're so desperate that you want to go only the ebook route, and you don't mind doing all the heavy work, you can do everything you need to get your book published yourself, and the worst that'll come out of it is just a little bit of hard work on your part.

You pay a few bucks for a cover, a few for the ISBN, pay for an editor (no, don't trust your own editing skills, trust me!) market the crap out of your book (probably spending at least a little money to do so) and then get a few professional reviews of your novel as well to boost its presence in the ebook market. Ebooks are the great leveler. When it comes to publishing with nothing but ebooks (which is where the market is headed) you don't need a publishing house, unless you're too busy/lazy/whatever to be bothered with it.

So with that in mind, who even needs a Vanity press for ebooks? Nobody honestly.

simonroyle · 10-19-2010, 07:51 PM

Steven,

Not a stupid question; an exactly right question. All I can assume is that people going that route do not read anything at all on the internet. Type ebook in Google and start clicking. Likely you will click on something within five minutes that will lead you to the conclusion that you can do it yourself.

Typically ebook publishers off you 50% of net, which means 35% of what remains at the only real game in town Amazon. Unless the publisher is going to be marketing 5 hours a night on your behalf (I've yet to see one do more than an author), why would you do that?

The common answer is, "I'm a writer I don't want to have to market my books ..." Well we both know how far that is going to get you.

HarryT · 10-21-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

This might seem like a really stupid question, but why would anyone actually *need* a publisher when it comes to ebooks? I mean, come on. If you're so desperate that you want to go only the ebook route, and you don't mind doing all the heavy work, you can do everything you need to get your book published yourself, and the worst that'll come out of it is just a little bit of hard work on your part.

Precisely because some people don't want to do the work. The same reason that I employ a gardener - I like having a nice garden, but I don't like gardening. There's absolutely nothing wrong with offering a service for those who don't wish to go down the DIY route.

simonroyle · 10-21-2010, 11:49 AM

Harry it's a couple of hours work, surely people who have spent months writing, and editing a book can handle that. I mean I don't like gardening either, but I'll pull a dead leaf off a plant - which is what this amounts to in terms of effort.

Penforhire · 10-21-2010, 12:03 PM

It is LESS than a couple of hours work to change the oil in your car, one of our typical most valued possessions. How many of us could do it but take it to someone else? Most of us. Same reasoning applies if you substitute mental effort or minor anguish for a little grubby oil and grease getting on you.

simonroyle · 10-22-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penforhire

It is LESS than a couple of hours work to change the oil in your car, one of our typical most valued possessions. How many of us could do it but take it to someone else? Most of us. Same reasoning applies if you substitute mental effort or minor anguish for a little grubby oil and grease getting on you.

No I get the wife to do it ...

Nahgem · 10-22-2010, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Precisely because some people don't want to do the work. The same reason that I employ a gardener - I like having a nice garden, but I don't like gardening. There's absolutely nothing wrong with offering a service for those who don't wish to go down the DIY route.

Big publishing houses also theoretically have more money to put into the marketing. If an author can convince a publisher to take the gamble on them and pay a marketing team to do all the hard work they don't want to, why wouldn't they take them up on it?

simonroyle · 10-22-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nahgem

Big publishing houses also theoretically have more money to put into the marketing. If an author can convince a publisher to take the gamble on them and pay a marketing team to do all the hard work they don't want to, why wouldn't they take them up on it?

They might, but with all due respect that's not the point of this thread. Any author who receives an offer from a publishing house to publish their work should seriously consider it. There are many pros to going that route.

This thread, however is not talking about publishers taking on books, it is talking about Borders, a bookstore chain, charging writers to distribute their work; and what I find particularly distasteful, dangling the "you too can be a bestseller carrot" - which is, in 99.99% of all cases, a sucker punch.

Nahgem · 10-22-2010, 01:43 AM

Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that. They're marketing it as instant success, which is unrealistic.

At the same time, I figure if people are willing to pay for it, it's up to them. There are probably cheaper routes that give just as good, or better, results but if people want to pay more to (theoretically) do less, I've no problem with it. For someone who wants to actually publish a blog as an e-book, or series of ebooks, for example (though why they would, I don't know), it might be worth the money to just plug in the URL and let the program upload everything for them to format.

simonroyle · 10-22-2010, 02:09 AM

I agree with you on your point of the "paying for a service" (I still don't think it is worth it).

As a "publisher" I buy services all the time: editing, cover design, virtual assistant, domain hosting, web seo, and more - what I don't do, is lie to the author (and that would be me too

), that the services I provide are going to result in a bestseller.

HarryT · 10-22-2010, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonroyle

I agree with you on your point of the "paying for a service" (I still don't think it is worth it).

As a "publisher" I buy services all the time: editing, cover design, virtual assistant, domain hosting, web seo, and more - what I don't do, is lie to the author (and that would be me too

), that the services I provide are going to result in a bestseller.

It's advertising. I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you, but adverts don't always tell the truth

.

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10-18-2010, 09:41 AM	#18
L.J. Sellers Novelist Posts: 287 Karma: 387979 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eugene, Oregon Device: Kindle	Simon is right in calling it a vanity press, because it charges clients for its publishing service, provides the ISBN (and therefore is the publisher), and makes false promises. However, the $90 fee is inline with what someone would pay independently for the service of creating an e-book (epub file) from an original Word document. So it's not a ripoff vanity press, like those that charge hundreds for the simple process of creating a print file and registering the title in the databases. L.J.

10-19-2010, 01:44 PM	#19
bobavey Bob Avey Posts: 117 Karma: 501082 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Broken Arrow, OK Device: none	It would be interesting to look five or ten years into the future to see where this apparent ebook revolution will lead. Beneath a Buried House http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003SE7J6I

10-19-2010, 04:09 PM	#20
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,157 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	This might seem like a really stupid question, but why would anyone actually need a publisher when it comes to ebooks? I mean, come on. If you're so desperate that you want to go only the ebook route, and you don't mind doing all the heavy work, you can do everything you need to get your book published yourself, and the worst that'll come out of it is just a little bit of hard work on your part. You pay a few bucks for a cover, a few for the ISBN, pay for an editor (no, don't trust your own editing skills, trust me!) market the crap out of your book (probably spending at least a little money to do so) and then get a few professional reviews of your novel as well to boost its presence in the ebook market. Ebooks are the great leveler. When it comes to publishing with nothing but ebooks (which is where the market is headed) you don't need a publishing house, unless you're too busy/lazy/whatever to be bothered with it. So with that in mind, who even needs a Vanity press for ebooks? Nobody honestly.

10-19-2010, 07:51 PM	#21
simonroyle Addict Posts: 309 Karma: 500370 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bangkok Device: kindle	Steven, Not a stupid question; an exactly right question. All I can assume is that people going that route do not read anything at all on the internet. Type ebook in Google and start clicking. Likely you will click on something within five minutes that will lead you to the conclusion that you can do it yourself. Typically ebook publishers off you 50% of net, which means 35% of what remains at the only real game in town Amazon. Unless the publisher is going to be marketing 5 hours a night on your behalf (I've yet to see one do more than an author), why would you do that? The common answer is, "I'm a writer I don't want to have to market my books ..." Well we both know how far that is going to get you.

10-21-2010, 11:49 AM	#23
simonroyle Addict Posts: 309 Karma: 500370 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bangkok Device: kindle	Harry it's a couple of hours work, surely people who have spent months writing, and editing a book can handle that. I mean I don't like gardening either, but I'll pull a dead leaf off a plant - which is what this amounts to in terms of effort.

10-21-2010, 12:03 PM	#24
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	It is LESS than a couple of hours work to change the oil in your car, one of our typical most valued possessions. How many of us could do it but take it to someone else? Most of us. Same reasoning applies if you substitute mental effort or minor anguish for a little grubby oil and grease getting on you.

10-22-2010, 01:43 AM	#28
Nahgem Groupie Posts: 170 Karma: 1065326 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Nooks	Yeah, I'm definitely with you on that. They're marketing it as instant success, which is unrealistic. At the same time, I figure if people are willing to pay for it, it's up to them. There are probably cheaper routes that give just as good, or better, results but if people want to pay more to (theoretically) do less, I've no problem with it. For someone who wants to actually publish a blog as an e-book, or series of ebooks, for example (though why they would, I don't know), it might be worth the money to just plug in the URL and let the program upload everything for them to format.

10-22-2010, 02:09 AM	#29
simonroyle Addict Posts: 309 Karma: 500370 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Bangkok Device: kindle	I agree with you on your point of the "paying for a service" (I still don't think it is worth it). As a "publisher" I buy services all the time: editing, cover design, virtual assistant, domain hosting, web seo, and more - what I don't do, is lie to the author (and that would be me too ), that the services I provide are going to result in a bestseller.

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