Amazon "Your Books"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by slm

I don't want to restart the "what does delete mean" conversation, but if you click on a book in Your Books, it will show a summary of the book. There is a menu (three dots "...") on the right-hand side that has an option labelled "Permanently Remove." Its in red.

I don't know what is does--I suspect is just removes the book from the Your Books list but I'm reluctant to try it.

You could try it without losing anything. Buy a free eBook and use that to try it.

[hleo12]

I tried it.

It said it has removed the item from my "Your Books," but I still see the banner that says "You purchased this edition on..." on the actual book page, and it's still under my Contents & Devices page. It disappeared completely on my "Your Books" though. I can't even search for it there.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by haertig

And I repeat: Yes

There are many, many reasons that deleting the record of purchase is very bad, and #1 is to protect you from fraud.

If somebody gets your Amazon account information, they could buy eBooks up to your credit card limit, download them to a Kindle (either direct or via "download and transfer via USB) they had activated on your account, strip the DRM, and have the eBooks. Then, they remove the Kindle from your account.

Then, if Amazon did it your way, they could completely remove any indication that the items had been purchased...it wouldn't show in "Content and Devices", or in "Your Orders", etc. The only thing you would have is a lot of credit card charges that were for the kind of things you had previously purchased.

[John F]

Originally Posted by haertig

...

Like if someone agrees to a condition in a court of law and is told their offense will be deleted from their record. It's gone. And it doesn't pop back up later to haunt them when they're looking for a job or whatever. It's gone.

...

But there would still be a trail? Police logs, court logs, camera footage, ...?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

But there would still be a trail? Police logs, court logs, camera footage, ...?

In Canada, if you have a criminal conviction, you can apply for a pardon and if granted, your criminal record is removed from the public record. For example, if you apply for a job, it would not show if the employer ran a criminal record check and it would not show if you were crossing the border into the USA. OTOH, if you are arrested and charged, the record can be made available to the courts.

[Paperbackstash]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

There are many, many reasons that deleting the record of purchase is very bad, and #1 is to protect you from fraud.

If somebody gets your Amazon account information, they could buy eBooks up to your credit card limit, download them to a Kindle (either direct or via "download and transfer via USB) they had activated on your account, strip the DRM, and have the eBooks. Then, they remove the Kindle from your account.

Then, if Amazon did it your way, they could completely remove any indication that the items had been purchased...it wouldn't show in "Content and Devices", or in "Your Orders", etc. The only thing you would have is a lot of credit card charges that were for the kind of things you had previously purchased.

Agreed, I never expected the whole purchase or acquisition history to be removed from Amazon - I can see it being deleted from the account as an owned book with permanently delete, but the history/records have to still be there. It's a "store"

Either way, it's not the same argument, as the OP said I have always gone to "Manage My Content" after returning a Kindle Unlimited book and told it to delete the book. Same for library books FWIW. I leave only the books that I have actually purchased. This is a minor privacy thing to me. Not a huge deal, but something I have always done.

Obviously the Kindle Unlimited and Library books are borrowed, not purchases, so there's no reason to go into content and devices and permanently delete --- that feature is for purchased books you want to permanently delete. The KU and Library borrow will have different record tracking anyway and gets more complicated. They have to track what's borrowed from KU to pay authors automatically and any hidden limits, and libraries is outside app they coordinate with for similar reasons.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Paperbackstash

Obviously the Kindle Unlimited and Library books are borrowed, not purchases, so there's no reason to go into content and devices and permanently delete ---

Sure there is. It gets their titles off the list, so when I look at my list I see only books I own that I want to keep. No point in extraneous titles cluttering up the list and especially when I can no longer access them!

OTOH, people might want to keep them, because if they reborrow or buy the book, their bookmarks and highlights will have been retained.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Paperbackstash

Obviously the Kindle Unlimited and Library books are borrowed, not purchases, so there's no reason to go into content and devices and permanently delete...

Of course there is. It's called "privacy". When I borrow an ebook from my library, THEY do not keep a record of it (after the book has been returned). The library does this intentionally, and says that this is done for privacy. However, Amazon also has a record if you borrowed the ebook from your library in AZW3 format. But even when told to delete that, per their interface that says "delete permanently", they don't. Tell me, when talking about a library loan, what could "delete permanently" refer to other than the record of you checking out the book? There is simply nothing else to delete for a library loan. I fail to understand how people can say "I would never expect them to delete THAT". Well, what would you expect them to delete then??? "Delete permanently" has to relate to something that they are deleting, doesn't it?

[DNSB]

The local library does not delete the record of the loan, what is done is the borrower is removed from the record. So they can say this book was borrowed 7 times in the last 6 months and they can say that haertig borrowed 11 books in the last year both of which may be considered important information but they are unable to say what books haertig borrowed.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The local library does not delete the record of the loan, what is done is the borrower is removed from the record. So they can say this book was borrowed 7 times in the last 6 months and they can say that haertig borrowed 11 books in the last year both of which may be considered important information but they are unable to say what books haertig borrowed.

Probably technically correct. And if Amazon did this, then haertig - or anyone else - would not be able to see what specific books haertig borrowed (this is the privacy part). The borrowed/deleted books would not magically reappear years later - attributed to haertig - in some new feature called "Your Books".

Which is the point.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by haertig

Of course there is. It's called "privacy". When I borrow an ebook from my library, THEY do not keep a record of it (after the book has been returned).

It is only relatively recently that Overdrive changed to have "History" disabled by default, but that still only changes what you can see.

Regardless of what you can see, they do keep a record of your borrows:

Originally Posted by https://company.cdn.overdrive.com/policies/privacy-policy.htm

In addition to information that you may willingly submit to OverDrive, such as your library card number, school ID number, and/or email address, OverDrive may collect and store certain PII and non-PII related to your interactions and use of our Services, including but not limited to, IP address, device type, device ID, operating system, library card number, Adobe ID, library name, lending history, holds, reading progress, bookmarks, highlights, notes, and online activity.

Some Services provide the ability for you to see your lending history. If you are using your institution’s OverDrive-hosted website, Libby, or the OverDrive app, you will have the option to show your lending history. You can hide your lending history by following the instructions within the app or help articles. Your lending history is protected by OverDrive as confidential. It is not shared with any third parties, except to staff with appropriate authority acting within the scope of their duties for the administration of your institution (library, school, etc.). If we are compelled to disclose your lending history pursuant to a court order or subpoena, or to a person or agency with the relevant administrative or legislative investigative power, we will seek to challenge and limit the scope and comply with the authorized agency or person only as required by law.

So, your library may not keep a record of what you have borrowed, but they can ask Overdrive any time they want.

If you don't want Amazon to keep track of your library loans, then don't borrow Kindle-format books...borrow EPUB and deal with Adobe's privacy policy instead (hint: it's not any different from Amazon's).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

If you don't want Amazon to keep track of your library loans, then don't borrow Kindle-format books...borrow EPUB and deal with Adobe's privacy policy instead (hint: it's not any different from Amazon's).

Last time I looked, Adobe did not sell/lend ebooks. Nor should Adobe have direct access to the Adobe content delivery servers used to fulfill requests. From reports several years back, when I borrow an epub from the library by downloading the .acsm file, when I use the .acsm file, my Adobe ID is validated but that does not require the book information to be sent.

Now if I use my Kobo ereader or app to directly sync the ebook file, the situation is much the same as with Amazon. The somewhat nice part is that when I return the library book from my Kobo, Kobo will sync a preview which will preserve my notes/annotations if I either purchase or borrow the book again.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Last time I looked, Adobe did not sell/lend ebooks. Nor should Adobe have direct access to the Adobe content delivery servers used to fulfill requests. From reports several years back, when I borrow an epub from the library by downloading the .acsm file, when I use the .acsm file, my Adobe ID is validated but that does not require the book information to be sent.

Now if I use my Kobo ereader or app to directly sync the ebook file, the situation is much the same as with Amazon. The somewhat nice part is that when I return the library book from my Kobo, Kobo will sync a preview which will preserve my notes/annotations if I either purchase or borrow the book again.

However, if you borrow or purchase, there's no guarantee that you'll get the same version. I've seen some eBooks get updated such that annotations would not be in the same place.

[mempho]

I deleted a couple of books I purchased because the book was defective (to be fair, Amazon warned me they "might" be). Since then I've noticed the original is no longer available from Amazon. Neither of these books shows up in "Your Books". So it seems Amazon is including only books that are currently available.

[JSWolf]

I hope we never ever get "Your Books". There's no way to download via the web browser.