Scrivener - StoryMill - Storyist - WriteItNow 5

[Dr. Drib]

Good comments from your posts, Hitch. I enjoy reading your thoughts on all of this, even though I might disagree on some points.

From what I understand, one can rename some of those top menu items in Power Structure to suit one's individual type of writing....perhaps even changing a template, I wonder?

I'm getting ready to leave, so I can't really verify any of the above for certain.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Good comments from your posts, Hitch. I enjoy reading your thoughts on all of this, even though I might disagree on some points.

From what I understand, one can rename some of those top menu items in Power Structure to suit one's individual type of writing....perhaps even changing a template, I wonder?

I'm getting ready to leave, so I can't really verify any of the above for certain.

Dunno (about renaming, etc. in Power Structure). That's why I'm going to do something astounding and unheard of: RTFI. (Read the Manual). I'm glad it has one--I'm a "learn by reading, not by watching" kind of person. I really struggle to retain what I see and allegedly learn in videos. I'm much better/faster with a written set of documentation.

Uh'll bee bahck.

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

I could have sworn that one could rename certain parts of the menu to suit different types of writing. For example, like substituting [something] for the word 'SCENE'.

I'm going to have to check again tomorrow morning.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

I could have sworn that one could rename certain parts of the menu to suit different types of writing. For example, like substituting [something] for the word 'SCENE'.

I'm going to have to check again tomorrow morning.

I'm sure you're correct. I've made it through about half the PDF (having succumbed and bought the damn software, DD!!!), and you're right. It seems to be heavily customizable, and once I read that in the PDF, I bought it, as it will really work for me.

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

I just found something: Go to EDIT, and then look at TERMINOLOGY.

It appears as if one can fine-tune some of the names, etc., but I haven't experimented with anything as of yet.

[Penforhire]

Hitch, on Scrivener, Word does not have the same structural capability.

Stuff like adding notes and tags to scenes, separate from all-document notes and tags. Word's outline capability is not nearly as visual as Scivener's, with the ability to add colors and status words to each block of text (normally scenes but you can subdivide at whatever level you prefer).

Also Scrivener allows one file to maintain resource sub-information much more easily, and separately assemble your text document, than inserting it into one Word file. Same for document snapshots, backing up your work to explore different revisions. Sure you can do that manually in Word but it is a built-in for Scrivener.

Working purely in Windows I prefer a combination of Word and OneNote, which still doesn't have the easy one-file approach of Scrivener. Scrivener for Mac is better than the other combinations I've tried in OSX (Circus Ponies Notebook, Growley Notes, and OneNote for Mac). The latest MS Office365 for Mac is weak, after all their improvements. Even that combination doesn't have the character or story hand-holding that some of your preferred applications provide.

I think you're downplaying some of Scrivener's abilities but I can understand how it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Hitch, on Scrivener, Word does not have the same structural capability.

Stuff like adding notes and tags to scenes, separate from all-document notes and tags. Word's outline capability is not nearly as visual as Scivener's, with the ability to add colors and status words to each block of text (normally scenes but you can subdivide at whatever level you prefer).

Howdy! I absolutely agree that you can't "tag" Word outline features, or paragraphs, or anything else. I would never suggest differently. I would proffer that being able to use comments, for notes, is similar, although, again, the ability to see them EASILY, at a glance, is not the same (although the reviewing pane is not dissimilar, either, in Word). Ditto Status "words," as in Draft, Done, etc. You're 100% right.

Also Scrivener allows one file to maintain resource sub-information much more easily, and separately assemble your text document, than inserting it into one Word file. Same for document snapshots, backing up your work to explore different revisions. Sure you can do that manually in Word but it is a built-in for Scrivener.

Well...to me, the sub-resource information "folders" are simply convenience, rather than anything special. I feel that there's not really any difference between keeping a folder on a computer, versus keeping the folders at the "bottom" of the Scrivener file list. But, again, I absolutely understand why some folks like it. It's convenient.

Also, vis-a-vis assembling/Word, I'd say that using Master Documents would solve a LOT of authors' issues, if they are building a massive story/storyworld, and are working one chapter at a time. (This may be me, just being cranky. Despite the fact that we're very clear that we're not a concatenation service, I've lost track, recently, of the number of "books" that have come in, in pieces. Chapte
rs, sections--you name it. We've had one file with hundreds of chapters/sections, and 500 images, that we apparently were expected to concatenate, just to QUOTE it.)

I admit I don't understand why folks can't just learn to use the tool (word-processors).

I agree that the snapshot feature in Scrivener is likely handy, if people really do have multiple revisions and want to see earlier versions. That's not a way I work, so...can't speak to that.

Working purely in Windows I prefer a combination of Word and OneNote, which still doesn't have the easy one-file approach of Scrivener. Scrivener for Mac is better than the other combinations I've tried in OSX (Circus Ponies Notebook, Growley Notes, and OneNote for Mac). The latest MS Office365 for Mac is weak, after all their improvements. Even that combination doesn't have the character or story hand-holding that some of your preferred applications provide.

I think you're downplaying some of Scrivener's abilities but I can understand how it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I don't dislike Scrivener. It's just that the features it does have aren't quite what I need/want. I think, in viewing it, that it's mostly a visual-person versus a word-person difference. Most creatives tend to be heavily visual. Scrivener definitely caters to that.

As I said, I infinitely prefer YWriter for most of the actual writing, even over Word. As I'd mentioned previously, I do/did like Scrivener for simply outlining, in conjunction with Snowflake Pro (for character development) and YWriter for actual writing, as I like to track things in my scenes that maybe other folks don't care about, or do in their heads, or use tags for in Scrivener, or, or or. I'm big on structure, both for the overall story/book, and within each scene, along with keeping track of conflicts, goals, yadda. And, timelining, for which I think that YWriter is really the bee's knees. Plus being able to easily output scenes by character, by POV character, etc. It's a grossly overlooked little program, just because it's not very sexy-looking.

To be clear: I don't want the "story hand-holding," per se; I simply want the ability to put various story stages in my outline, so I can see it clearly. For me, it's not a writing tool; it's an outlining tool. (I'm an outliner to the nth. It's just how I am.) I don't actually want someone else's ideas about structure, not even Campbell; I like my own. I simply want to be able to see them.

At least in Word, if I chose, I could use a header level to indicate something like the "PNR," or whatever, and color it however I wanted, for ease of finding, and filter the Outline to see to that level. I find that using the Word built-in outlining feature works pretty well for multi-dimensional outlines (say, Act, Chapters, Scenes, and for me, goalposts/milestones for the story itself). That's the ONE thing I don't really like about YWriter, and what set me off on this quest for something else.

And yes, so far, I'm rather liking PowerStructure, because it lets me see all those things at once. To me, that's helpful, more helpful than the Scrivener Corkboard. However, again, I understand completely that more-visual folks might like the Corkboard better. I'm more of a word person, as opposed to a picture/visual person (more left-brain than right, by far). So, something like YW5 or the left-hand-pane in Scrivener (as opposed to the Corkboard, I mean) or Power-Structure works BETTER for me than index cards. Same process, effectively--different visual stimuli. See what I mean? My friend and colleague Holly Lisle is a devotee of Scrivener and Index cards; I can hardly deal with index cards, real or virtual. I like to see my structure in an old-school outline. Boring, I know, but what can I say?

That doesn't mean that Scrivener isn't a great program. It's not a great program, all by itself, for ME. I get that the "one-stop shop" features of Scrivener, and its price, and the fact that it's pretty, make it a very attractive and popular piece of software. I don't mean to "diss" it. I'm just talking about the features that I want/need/desire/wishlist, in this thread. And I'm glad I did--I would never have stumbled across Power Structure without it. Someone else may find/love Writer's Blocks. {shrug}. As I said some posts ago, whatever gets you to the finish line is what matters, IMHO. (Still think that LSBXE is utter crapola, though.)

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

Hitch, how is Power Structure fitting in with your needs?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Hitch, how is Power Structure fitting in with your needs?

Hey, DD:

I really quite like it. It doesn't do some things, that would be handy, but I can live without those. For example, one thing that Scrivener does do, is allow you to create a "Whatever" section, into which you can type chapters of material that you're not going to use. (For example: if you're writing a mystery, you end up writing huge chunks of story that you know upfront you're not actually going to use. You type the story of the murder itself--every single step--so that your protagonist can then turn around and solve it. You need to know what clues can be created, etc.) I'm still playing with how to work best with PS (as I am currently working on a story that has a big chunk of it told in flashbacks to a red herring plotline from 20 years prior), to put that in a "spot" that makes sense to me.

I absolutely ADORE the Gestalt view. For those of us who are completely OCD about things like structure, sub-plots, etc., I think it's really great. I can pop it open, view it in Act-->Chapter-->Plot Point-->Plot Point Detail (item by item). It's incredibly useful in that way. As it advertises--it's about structure.

It's 99%, a structure-creation/outlining tool. Pantsers would HATE it, methinks. But it's great for me.

I will still end up doing the final writing in YW, I suspect, because I have some bits and pieces that I want to be SURE don't get bollixed, in timelines, and because I very much like the other YW features.

To me, PS is not a "writing" tool (it doesn't even give you daily word counts, goals, etc., so I don't see how someone OCD enough to use it in the first place could STAND not knowing THAT stuff, if you think about it), it's purely for outlining. I wouldn't write in it. I'll get the structure complete, output it, and then import that into YW, and go from there.

That's my take on it thus far. I'll revert back on this in more detail in, say, a month, when I've done more with it. I've done a lot--but I haven't checked all the functionality, etc. Right now, it's a corkboard for me, with character outlines, the basic overall plot structure, and some work I'm doing on the thematic sub-plots.

ETA: Sorry, I also forgot to mention--again, for the OCD amongst you--each chapter provides a spot for a checklist: "What has to happen in this scene?" so you can say things like "Betty has to find spot," "Betty has to save spot from drowning," "Betty meets Sam, Spot's owner," yadda, if you need that type of item-by-item reminding. I use it for those things in a chapter that need to move me forward in the story, so I don't forget them; they're like NOTES or reminders in Scrivener. e.g., "don't forget, she has to find the enchanted Chamber Pot in this scene." :-)

Hitch

[Hitch]

By the way:

I should also add, for the other wonks around here that use an outliner, storyboard, whatever, but WRITE in something else (Word, YWriter, even Scrivener), that Power Structure does have something else that is very cool; it has "Power Access."

Power Access takes the entirety of all your PS content, and puts it in a little bar, at the top of your screen. You can grab whatever you want, to view a character; a part of the story; your chapter notes, etc., and refresh your brain, OR, it will copy everything directly to the clipboard for your use. Let's say you'd written something spectacular (I should be so lucky) in a plot point. Say, 1,000 words of a partial scene, that I wanted to keep. I can have PS Access open while I'm rabbiting away in YW5, and then say, "oh, right, I want that." I can quickly click through to it, and either click for a dropdown, to see what I had, or click "Copy Details into Clipboard" and have it there.

Alternatively, you can click it, pop it open, and it provides you with all the details in a separate Power Structure box. Not having to constantly click up, click down, with a second program is pretty handy to me. I have 3 monitors, so it's not that problematic for me to run multiple programs, but for folks working on a laptop, it would be very, very useful.

I have also printed out (in a file format, not to the printer) the entire outline, of my current WIP, including all the character bios, etc., which makes it very simple to import into something else (RTF).

Very handy.

Hitch

[HappyMartin]

A question on Scrivener. Am I correct in assuming that the software runs on the principle of one license one machine?

Almost all my software comes from Adobe and they allow two installations per license, the assumption being one desktop and one laptop. I'm not sure if this is a common practice or not.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

A question on Scrivener. Am I correct in assuming that the software runs on the principle of one license one machine?

Almost all my software comes from Adobe and they allow two installations per license, the assumption being one desktop and one laptop. I'm not sure if this is a common practice or not.

No. It's either 2 or 3 machines/devices per license. I have Scrivener installed on at least one desktop and my Win8 laptop.

HTH

Hitch

[HappyMartin]

Then it's a definite for me. Thank you for the info Hitch. Now to get on with the book I guess. I am told Scrivener won't do that for me.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

Then it's a definite for me. Thank you for the info Hitch. Now to get on with the book I guess. I am told Scrivener won't do that for me.

Please check out this other post on Mobileread:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=265027

[HappyMartin]

Thanks so much Dr D. Up and running and activated. Simple process and a real deal. This is all new to me. Believe it or not I have never really used a WP before. Aside from about 4 hours on pages. Exciting stuff