Help! Mysterious Broken Screen!!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dki

I also believe that if a class action was instigated against Cybook, they would be in serious trouble, as there is enough evidence that the device is faulty.

I think you'd have a hard time proving that there was a design flaw. You may believe that there is, but do you have any hard and fast proof that the screen failure rate is higher than one might reasonably expect it to be? Do you have any hard data on what the failure rate is, as a percentage of devices shipped?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think you'd have a hard time proving that there was a design flaw. You may believe that there is, but do you have any hard and fast proof that the screen failure rate is higher than one might reasonably expect it to be? Do you have any hard data on what the failure rate is, as a percentage of devices shipped?

If it fails inside 6 months it is the seller that has to prove that it is not a design fault.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

If it fails inside 6 months it is the seller that has to prove that it is not a design fault.

Serious question, Tommy - how can you "prove" a negative? I don't see how it would be possible to prove that a design is not faulty.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Serious question, Tommy - how can you "prove" a negative? I don't see how it would be possible to prove that a design is not faulty.

How do you prove that you did not break it? It is also a negative.

An alternative is to show that the customer broke it. The point is that when this change was made in the laws (regulations) it was to make it better for consumers. Before the rule was that the consumer had to show that it was a design fault.

Of course in most cases it is not possible for the seller to show that it is not a design fault that caused the problem so the he has to replace the item. And that is the intended consequence of the law.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

All devices suffer broken screens - do a search of the forums. I've certainly seen no evidence that the Gen3 is suffering more than other devices.

Well, given the poll I've started about the 505 and it's screen, I'd say yes the Gen3 is having more breaks then the 505. This is just based on reports on MR only.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29270

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Well, given the poll I've started about the 505 and it's screen, I'd say yes the Gen3 is having more breaks then the 505. This is just based on reports on MR only.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29270

Wouldn't you need a CyBook poll to compare it to?

BOb

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tompe

How do you prove that you did not break it? It is also a negative.

An alternative is to show that the customer broke it. The point is that when this change was made in the laws (regulations) it was to make it better for consumers. Before the rule was that the consumer had to show that it was a design fault.

Of course in most cases it is not possible for the seller to show that it is not a design fault that caused the problem so the he has to replace the item. And that is the intended consequence of the law.

I can understand saying the user broke it if there is other signs of damage like it was dropped. But if the unit looks good without visible damage other then the screen, how can Bookeen say that it didn't just break? The thing is, it's not going to be good business if people find out the screen can just break and when it does, it's not covered under warranty. You'll find people who have a broken screen ending up getting a different reader and/or telling others to stay away.

Given what I know, I'd wait to see what it is Sony has to say on October 2nd and if I decided I still wanted a device that supports DRM Mobipocket, I'd get a V3 once they have the firmware update out for it.

Known problems... Gen3 has a mysteriously breaking screen.Amazon has no repair facility for fixing the Kindle when it's not a warranty repair. That's not to say the Kindle is fragile. It's just that if your warranty is past, Amazon does not have a repair facility. Sony doesn't have cross country warranties. So if you buy a 505 in the USA and take it to the UK, and it breaks under warranty, you cannot get it fixed in the UK. The US 505 has to be fixed in the US just as a UK 505 has to be fixed in the UK. If it is out of warranty, it doesn't matter.

[GreyCat]

I have a lot of sympathy for all of the people that have experienced broken screens on their Cybooks (and other readers). I read all the posts in this thread yesterday and I felt a bit like an addict with someone threatening to take my drug of choice away

It certainly sounds like these screens can break for no apparent reason. Stress, temperature changes etc may over time end in a broken screen. I don't disagree that the stories here make it sound like some of the screens are very fragile and not really fit for normal use (no, I'm not gonna define normal...)

But that is why I'm writing this post. I've had my Cybook since early January. I carry it everywhere with me in my purse. For those that don't have first hand experience with winter in Norway that means a lot of temperature changes. I even took it trekking for 4 days in the Himalayas this Easter (with a waterproof bag). The most serious problem I've had is that the SD card that came with the Cybook stopped working, changing that out solved my bookmark problems. Like HarryT I always keep my Cybook in its cover. I treat it like I treat all my other electronic gadgets, with care, and so far I have avoided dropping it. (Knock on wood)

I agree it's odd (and scary) with all the breaking screens and I think the manufacturer should do some checking to try to find out if there is something in the construction of the Cybook or the manufacture of the screen that should be changed. But I still think the eInk readers are a great product and most of them are working as expected (currently 87% answers I own or use a Cybook, and the screen is fine, thanks. on the Teleread survey (yes, I know it's not scientific)).

It would be interesting to see the real numbers on how many screens are repaired on the different devices, although I guess that's something they won't tell us.

[albertoLP]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What do you mean by "just a little pressure", alberto? What did you do to it? Carry it in a backpack with other heavy objects? I'm afraid that no reader - not a Kindle, not a Sony, not an iLiad - is going to "survive" having heavy object press into it.

In what way do you believe that "the software is crap", by the way? What problems have you found with it?

Just a little pressure = I put it on the back of a wide couch, and I touched it a little with my back. Since it was upside I barely touched the thing
I weight 60 kg, I'm pretty thin... not to mention I knew it was there so I did not lean completely on it. Plus, it was in its rigid case.

(i'm not going into details about why I did this ... well, ok..., I was playing with my baby niece. The cybook was on the table where the kid was, and I put it on the couch behind my back to avoid the danger... but guess what... )

My cybook didn't break alone. I guess i put the right pressure on the right place to break it... But I still think I treated it like it was made of glass... actually, a piece of fine glass wouldn't had broken

About the software... I mainly manage pdfs. Well, you just have to try a few I you don't know why it is crap. Not only the lack of zoom witch make unreadable the pdf, but also how you move along the pages... little by little instead of whole pages, so you have to press several times. Also If you press by accident 1 more time, it goes to the next page and when you go back you go to the top of the page...
Also, the way it manage collection of images (to read a comic for example) is a pain to use. And the way it manages the collection of books, and the way you move along the menus...

Its ok if you only read one book and its in its proper mobi format or whatever its called. I don't use it to read novels... but lot of stuff that comes to me in several formats and it would be a pain to read in the computer screen...

I updated the software till it broke, but instead of updating it looked like a downgrade from my pov

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

hello albertoLP.

I don't own a Cybook Gen3, but I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune.

I own a different device and am very happy with it, but I would also like to own a Cybook Gen3 -- I still want one.

On a lighter note, I want to welcome you to MobileRead. There are many people here who will give you helpful comments and advice.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune with your Reader.

Don

Thank you... I am willing to buy another device... this one looks nice LINK LINK

[HarryT]

OK, if you use it to read PDFs I completely understand why you're not very happy with it. The "fault", however, lies in the PDF format; it wasn't intended to be an eBook format, and there's no good way to read a PDF formatted for an A4 page on a screen with only 1/6th the area of A4.

[dki]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think you'd have a hard time proving that there was a design flaw. You may believe that there is, but do you have any hard and fast proof that the screen failure rate is higher than one might reasonably expect it to be? Do you have any hard data on what the failure rate is, as a percentage of devices shipped?

I would not be the one doing this. Before the lawsuit is instigated, the experts render an opinion, and filing a complaint depends on that opinion. The number of devices that broke, reasons for breaking, as well as repair reports and such are in discoverable evidence obtainable from Booken, under normal discovery rules, or, if Booken turns unresponsive (as they tend to be), under the subpoena. All the data is obtainable from Booken (including customer's emails), and they are responsible for keeping records.

All that aside, I did not say that it would be practical to instigate a lawsuit against them, particularly as they are a foreign entity. This is not a device that sold in millions in US, so the gain from such lawsuit would be negligible. If I was rich enough, I might have gone for it, just because of the way they treat their customers.

Dorota

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dki

If I was rich enough, I might have gone for it, just because of the way they treat their customers.

Dorota

I've had nothing but prompt, courteous support from Bookeen. May I ask what bad experience you've had which makes you feel so negatively about them?

[tribble]

Just for a little perspective. From all the CyBooks we sold, less than 1% have had a screen breakage. One of them was my CyBook. And i know for a fact, that it didnt break just from lying around.

So while it is very unfortunate for the user with the broken screen, Bookeen does not seem to have a general problem with the screens.

What many people forget is how these brakages happen. You twist or drop te device and everything looks fine. There is only a tiny hair fracture in the glass layer. Later, when the devce is lying around and the temperature changes, the tiny fracture grows and you can see it with your own eyes. So while i dont want to say, that it is impossible, that some screens might break due to faulty installation (i have no way to prove or disprove this), i must say, it is definately not an obvious Bookeen manufacturing problem.

[HarryT]

Thanks for that, Tribble - it's nice to get some "hard" figures from someone such as yourself, who's in a position to know the truth!

[tompe]

Originally Posted by tribble

What many people forget is how these brakages happen. You twist or drop te device and everything looks fine. There is only a tiny hair fracture in the glass layer. Later, when the devce is lying around and the temperature changes, the tiny fracture grows and you can see it with your own eyes. So while i dont want to say, that it is impossible, that some screens might break due to faulty installation (i have no way to prove or disprove this), i must say, it is definately not an obvious Bookeen manufacturing problem.

The question is how long time it can take from the drop to when you see it broken? What if Bookeen dropped it while packing or if Fedex dropped the package? The point is that it is very hard to know for sure if the customer is honest and claim that he did not do anything improper (if the customer is dishonest he know for sure...). And in these cases if the problem happen inside of 6 month it is the selller that have to show that it is not a manufacturing problem or a delivery or packaging problem (it was dropped).