Big Issues Versus Small Ones In Writing

AndrewMowere · 09-14-2016, 05:05 AM

I happened to watch Wreck It Ralph yesterday, where the protagonist basically just wants to be popular. I then went on to watch some episodes of an anime called Mob Psycho 100, and in a particular episode SPOILERS the main characters has a powerful emotional response to not being able to quit using his psychic powers. It got me thinking about the differences between pieces where there are grandiose problems leading to emotional responses in the character and pieces where the issues are small, such as, say, trying hard to make your father proud and then seeing him upset because you dislike his favorite show. I wonder which of these two illicit a greater sense of sympathy from a reader or watcher.

And so I present this question to you: Do you prefer to see characters deal with mundane issues or greater ones? Can you give examples of a few books which really stood out to you? Should one, then create an emotional response from his characters that is proportional or disproportional to the issue in writing?

Cinisajoy · 09-14-2016, 12:45 PM

I would actually like to see both.

gmw · 09-15-2016, 07:40 AM

Cinisajoy got it right. Big problems give a story some reason to be told, little problems (done right) make the characters, and therefore the story, seem real. (Ordinary life, and bodily function, goes on no matter how fantastic the "big" problem.)

AndrewMowere · 09-15-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

Cinisajoy got it right. Big problems give a story some reason to be told, little problems (done right) make the characters, and therefore the story, seem real. (Ordinary life, and bodily function, goes on no matter how fantastic the "big" problem.)

Interesting... I feel like I never really gave much thought to merging big problems and small ones, but it seems like it's something that often happens naturally on some level. I'll have to try something more deliberate at some point.

gmw · 09-15-2016, 11:54 AM

Don't forget my little proviso of "done right"

I think you understood my concern when you say "happens naturally". Even if some didn't happen naturally, it has to feel that way when you read it. And, like everything else in the story, there should be a point to them. Either they help to fill out the character, to change or enhance the atmosphere ... or whatever.

I'm re-reading my Agatha Christie collection at the moment, and one of her tricks was to bury the critical clue in the little details and problems being discussed early in the book. So in her case many of the little problems were camouflage. In other books I've seen little problems used to add humour and lighten otherwise slow/difficult places in the story. Use them to your advantage rather than just add them for colour.

Penforhire · 09-15-2016, 11:57 AM

My favorite novels seem to work through a big issue (end of the universe!) but drive much of the story from a small issue (Sally's sister can't get her passport). I believe this lets readers invest more in the characters than a big-issue-only approach (told largely from Emperor Ming's POV).

Writers can develop the same levels of tension, drama, and payoff for the small as for the big. When the arcs combine well they heighten the climax while the separate story beats can keep pacing brisk. It does take more cleverness and effort to tell a big story from the small POV.

Who does this well? Paolo Bacigalupi comes to mind, telling stories of a dystopian future through the eyes of its most downtrodden. Also Iain M. Banks, thinking especially of Feersum Endjinn. Several Charlie Stross stories deal with huge issues from an ant's perspective (Accelerando, Glasshouse). Most of Neal Stephenson's work is written that way, following small but pivotal actors in a large play.

AndrewMowere · 09-16-2016, 02:47 AM

Okay, so now I have something agatha christie wrote, as well as one of GMW's works (Vera's itch, I think). I'd go Pacigalupi as well but his work as a little pricey for me. I'm used to reading free indie stuff and one dollar ebooks, it's hard to go back. However, the method discussed here that he and Iain M Banks use seem interesting. And the ant thing! oooh!

Is it just me, or are most of Penforhire's suggestions from Scottish authors?

gmw · 09-16-2016, 11:41 AM

There's not much room in short stories to do little and big ... or maybe I'm just making excuses for not always managing to practice what I preach

I have not long finished Agatha Christie's "The Clocks", and it offers a neat little example that stuck in memory, if you can get a hold of it. I'll put the example in spoilers just below, but it's unlikely to spoil anything until Poirot arrives to point out what it means:

Spoiler:

Christie was very good at this sort of thing, which she mixed up with very convincing misdirections (what seem to be the bigger problems) to keep your mind away from the little things that are starting to add up.

This has been, perhaps, getting away little bit from your OP, because some stories are deliberately made from little things, and that's different to deciding that a book about big things needs little things too. (Did that sentence make sense?) Even when the little things are not pivotal, they are still important. They give a story a sense of reality even in the most fantastic of settings. That sense of reality is what made Pratchett funny. It's what made Hobbits seem like real people and therefore made their plight important to the reader ... I could go on, and on.

I can't say that I've paid a lot of attention to the origin of the authors from Penforhire, but the recent post doesn't seem to fit. ... So maybe it's just you.

Gregg Bell · 09-17-2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewMowere

I happened to watch Wreck It Ralph yesterday, where the protagonist basically just wants to be popular. I then went on to watch some episodes of an anime called Mob Psycho 100, and in a particular episode SPOILERS the main characters has a powerful emotional response to not being able to quit using his psychic powers. It got me thinking about the differences between pieces where there are grandiose problems leading to emotional responses in the character and pieces where the issues are small, such as, say, trying hard to make your father proud and then seeing him upset because you dislike his favorite show. I wonder which of these two illicit a greater sense of sympathy from a reader or watcher.

And so I present this question to you: Do you prefer to see characters deal with mundane issues or greater ones? Can you give examples of a few books which really stood out to you? Should one, then create an emotional response from his characters that is proportional or disproportional to the issue in writing?

I don't think there are any mundane issues. The question is how badly a character wants something.

09-14-2016, 05:05 AM	#1
AndrewMowere Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 2050612 Join Date: Dec 2015 Device: none	Big Issues Versus Small Ones In Writing I happened to watch Wreck It Ralph yesterday, where the protagonist basically just wants to be popular. I then went on to watch some episodes of an anime called Mob Psycho 100, and in a particular episode SPOILERS the main characters has a powerful emotional response to not being able to quit using his psychic powers. It got me thinking about the differences between pieces where there are grandiose problems leading to emotional responses in the character and pieces where the issues are small, such as, say, trying hard to make your father proud and then seeing him upset because you dislike his favorite show. I wonder which of these two illicit a greater sense of sympathy from a reader or watcher. And so I present this question to you: Do you prefer to see characters deal with mundane issues or greater ones? Can you give examples of a few books which really stood out to you? Should one, then create an emotional response from his characters that is proportional or disproportional to the issue in writing?

09-16-2016, 11:41 AM	#8
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	There's not much room in short stories to do little and big ... or maybe I'm just making excuses for not always managing to practice what I preach I have not long finished Agatha Christie's "The Clocks", and it offers a neat little example that stuck in memory, if you can get a hold of it. I'll put the example in spoilers just below, but it's unlikely to spoil anything until Poirot arrives to point out what it means: Spoiler: Very early in the book one of the secretaries is holding up a shoe with a broken heel and wondering how she's going to get home. Christie was very good at this sort of thing, which she mixed up with very convincing misdirections (what seem to be the bigger problems) to keep your mind away from the little things that are starting to add up. This has been, perhaps, getting away little bit from your OP, because some stories are deliberately made from little things, and that's different to deciding that a book about big things needs little things too. (Did that sentence make sense?) Even when the little things are not pivotal, they are still important. They give a story a sense of reality even in the most fantastic of settings. That sense of reality is what made Pratchett funny. It's what made Hobbits seem like real people and therefore made their plight important to the reader ... I could go on, and on. I can't say that I've paid a lot of attention to the origin of the authors from Penforhire, but the recent post doesn't seem to fit. ... So maybe it's just you.

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09-14-2016, 12:45 PM	#2
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	I would actually like to see both.

09-15-2016, 07:40 AM	#3
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	Cinisajoy got it right. Big problems give a story some reason to be told, little problems (done right) make the characters, and therefore the story, seem real. (Ordinary life, and bodily function, goes on no matter how fantastic the "big" problem.)

09-15-2016, 11:54 AM	#5
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	Don't forget my little proviso of "done right" I think you understood my concern when you say "happens naturally". Even if some didn't happen naturally, it has to feel that way when you read it. And, like everything else in the story, there should be a point to them. Either they help to fill out the character, to change or enhance the atmosphere ... or whatever. I'm re-reading my Agatha Christie collection at the moment, and one of her tricks was to bury the critical clue in the little details and problems being discussed early in the book. So in her case many of the little problems were camouflage. In other books I've seen little problems used to add humour and lighten otherwise slow/difficult places in the story. Use them to your advantage rather than just add them for colour.

09-15-2016, 11:57 AM	#6
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	My favorite novels seem to work through a big issue (end of the universe!) but drive much of the story from a small issue (Sally's sister can't get her passport). I believe this lets readers invest more in the characters than a big-issue-only approach (told largely from Emperor Ming's POV). Writers can develop the same levels of tension, drama, and payoff for the small as for the big. When the arcs combine well they heighten the climax while the separate story beats can keep pacing brisk. It does take more cleverness and effort to tell a big story from the small POV. Who does this well? Paolo Bacigalupi comes to mind, telling stories of a dystopian future through the eyes of its most downtrodden. Also Iain M. Banks, thinking especially of Feersum Endjinn. Several Charlie Stross stories deal with huge issues from an ant's perspective (Accelerando, Glasshouse). Most of Neal Stephenson's work is written that way, following small but pivotal actors in a large play.

09-16-2016, 02:47 AM	#7
AndrewMowere Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 2050612 Join Date: Dec 2015 Device: none	Okay, so now I have something agatha christie wrote, as well as one of GMW's works (Vera's itch, I think). I'd go Pacigalupi as well but his work as a little pricey for me. I'm used to reading free indie stuff and one dollar ebooks, it's hard to go back. However, the method discussed here that he and Iain M Banks use seem interesting. And the ant thing! oooh! Is it just me, or are most of Penforhire's suggestions from Scottish authors?