Most overhyped classic masterpiece?

[nikkers]

Pre 20th Century literature was mostly just the popular lit of the period .Some is damned hard to read if not impossible.But at leastat their is a ripping yarn (war vampires monsters mystery and murder). Us phillistines love a ripping yarn , but modern literature is plane boring navel gazing dross.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

For some reason I've always contrasted Tolstoy with Dickens: Dicken's stories are very interesting, and fun, and much much more, but somehow they're not entirely believable. War and Peace and Anna Karenina were completely believable: there wasn't an iota of artifice.

Give it an eleventyfirst try.

I never could 'get' Dickens - you made me want to try reading Tolstoy.

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

Yes, there are some translations out there that are very hard to read, and no translation can compete with the original text (IMO). The Iliad and the Odyssey are my favourite works of Greek lit. Book 24 of the Iliad is quite possibly my favourite piece of lit overall - it get me crying every time I read it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course. I have seen many people name many books that I wasn't fond of as their favourites. (I was never crazy about Hemingway, for example, and I felf that Byatt's "Possession" was just O.K. Sometimes things are worth another try, however; perhaps I read Hemingway and Byatt at a time when for some reason or another (exams, a flu, etc.) I couldn't enjoy them as much as I would have at some other time. Perhaps another read would have me viewing them differently.

Perhaps another book by Byatt? After all, "Possesion" is a romance and slightly out of the way for Byatt. But... I feel Byatt may be too intellectual in a thouroughly modern way for many. I like her a lot, but I've met few who feel they can 'connect' with her writing. It's 'too intellectual' and 'too dry' they say. That is what I like myself - I think.

I have a (supposedly) good modern translation of the Iliad - and you made me want to read it. I'm very much in favour of translations that can convey language in a contemporary way when we deal with ancient works. Often we read 100+ year old translations and they sound - rightly - oldfashioned. But for 1000 year old (or older) texts, I think it's better to look for a translation that work well in the current language.

[Fledchen]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Agree with you completely. It's a pity that so few people these days are able to read these works in their original language.

Most people don't have the means to hire a private tutor to learn Latin and Ancient Greek. I envy those who had the opportunity to learn these languages in school. My school system barely taught English.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Fledchen

Most people don't have the means to hire a private tutor to learn Latin and Ancient Greek. I envy those who had the opportunity to learn these languages in school. My school system barely taught English.

Mine neither. And Danish wasn't much better either.

Seriously, I would have loved an introduction to latin and classical greek. As it is, I've had to do it myself

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by Ea

I never could 'get' Dickens - you made me want to try reading Tolstoy.


Perhaps another book by Byatt? After all, "Possesion" is a romance and slightly out of the way for Byatt. But... I feel Byatt may be too intellectual in a thouroughly modern way for many. I like her a lot, but I've met few who feel they can 'connect' with her writing. It's 'too intellectual' and 'too dry' they say. That is what I like myself - I think.

I have a (supposedly) good modern translation of the Iliad - and you made me want to read it. I'm very much in favour of translations that can convey language in a contemporary way when we deal with ancient works. Often we read 100+ year old translations and they sound - rightly - oldfashioned. But for 1000 year old (or older) texts, I think it's better to look for a translation that work well in the current language.

I agree with you 100% about translations, and I am glad that I made you want to read the Iliad, I hope that you enjoy it!

I have got my hands on Byatt's "The Children's Book", and will begin reading it shortly. It may have been that I didn't enjoy Possession as much as I should have because it is a romance novel, I do read romance novels from time to time but it is not my favourite genre by any stretch of the imagination. Also, I came into reading the book with high expectations for it, so maybe I was setting myself up to be overly critical. There were many elements of the book that I enjoyed, however, so I will be glad to try another novel by A.S. Byatt.

[Vector]

(1) I have neglected this string for a while. I came back and found that a Homer war has broken out. (Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.) I'm in favor of Homer.

(2) Rereading has been mentioned in several posts. We're presumably talking about real literature here, not transient trash. Any literary work that is worth reading, is worth rereading. I find it especially valuable to reread immediately, or almost immediately, after a first reading. The first time I am concerned with the basic story. The second time, I pick up details and subtleties I missed the first time through.

(3) The original post referred to works published before 1960. If I may take the liberty of stretching that by two years, my own nominee is To Kill A Mockingbird, a book ostensibly about race, but really about class. The black characters are not real people, but strips of litmus paper whose only function is to tell the good white people from the bad white people. The good white people are, for the most part, the respectable sort. People like Harper Lee, in other words. The bad white people are the rednecks.

[tyler.]

Originally Posted by Ea

Seriously, I would have loved an introduction to latin and classical greek. As it is, I've had to do it myself

Gah, forget having someone teach me - I'd love to have the skills to teach myself a language!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fledchen

Most people don't have the means to hire a private tutor to learn Latin and Ancient Greek. I envy those who had the opportunity to learn these languages in school. My school system barely taught English.

You don't need a tutor - lots of excellent "self-study" courses around. I certainly wasn't taught either in school; I learned them independently as an adult. Let me know if you want recommendations.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by tyler.

Gah, forget having someone teach me - I'd love to have the skills to teach myself a language!

*G* I just said 'introduction'. I haven't had the stamina to keep at it,so I can't really read that much If you'd like to dip your toes in latin, I can warmly recommend this book: Lingua latina per se illustrata.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a pity that so few people these days are able to read these works in their original language.

In order to read a book in its original language you must know/understand language a lot more than a mere 1-2 years of self studying.
1. You must have a huge vocabulary, if you want to read a book and enjoy the content instead of breaking up concentration and looking every other word in a dictionary.
2. You must know its grammar well enough to understand subtleties and different shades of the language, thus different situations.

In order to master even one foreign language to this level you must invest an incedible amount of time, even if you are talented you still need the vocabulary. Studying a new language to a level required to enjoy a book and understand it better than if you read a professional translation (really understand all the emotions, not just getting the gist), will require as much time as changing your career, or more....

[Ea]

Originally Posted by astra

...
In order to master even one foreign language to this level you must invest an incedible amount of time, even if you are talented you still need the vocabulary. Studying a new language to a level required to enjoy a book and understand it better than if you read a professional translation (really understand all the emotions, not just getting the gist), will require as much time as changing your career, or more....

Now I almost feel it's a wonder that I can read English fiction and enjoy it, too. Aren't you being a little over the top here? I've certainly never felt learning English has been a career

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by astra

In order to read a book in its original language you must know/understand language a lot more than a mere 1-2 years of self studying.
1. You must have a huge vocabulary, if you want to read a book and enjoy the content instead of breaking up concentration and looking every other word in a dictionary.
2. You must know its grammar well enough to understand subtleties and different shades of the language, thus different situations.

In order to master even one foreign language to this level you must invest an incedible amount of time, even if you are talented you still need the vocabulary. Studying a new language to a level required to enjoy a book and understand it better than if you read a professional translation (really understand all the emotions, not just getting the gist), will require as much time as changing your career, or more....

Well, not quite as much time as changing your career. But you are right, it takes a lot of time to get to learn a new language, especially a "dead" language. It is, in my opinion, worth it, however.

I didn't learn Greek or Latin in school either, and I don't even think either of them are offered in many high schools. In Croatia many high schoolers learn pretty basic latin, and while Greek is offered in some schools those are few and far between.

My first Latin textbook was the famous "Wheelock's Latin Course", which is a great introduction, IMO. For Greek, I think the Athenaze courses don't look too bad. (In my Greek course we didn't use a textbook, we used a reference grammar and an excercise book).

Also, there are some great editions of Greek and Latin texts that have extensive vocabulary notes coupled with a few lines of text per page, so that you learn vocabulary by actually reading original text. A great example of this is Pharr's edition of Virgil's "Aeneid". Also, there are free programs and sites such as "Perseus Project" and "Diogenes" which allow you to read original Greek and Latin text, but when you click on a word you don't know the dictionary entry for it pops up. A great tool for people who want to read text but don't want to keep running to their dictionary every 2 seconds.

Happy reading!

[astra]

Originally Posted by Ea

Now I almost feel it's a wonder that I can read English fiction and enjoy it, too. Aren't you being a little over the top here? I've certainly never felt learning English has been a career

It depends on your background too.
For example, for people from Western Europe it is easier to learn English, German, Spanish, Italian, French then for other people. I know for sure that for Swedish people it is a lot easier to learn English than for Bulgarians. They also start to learn the language at earlier age.

What I said applies to adults and languages that are not similar to our mother tongue.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Ea

Now I almost feel it's a wonder that I can read English fiction and enjoy it, too. Aren't you being a little over the top here? I've certainly never felt learning English has been a career

Try to learn Russian now. To a level that will allow you to properly enjoy the books, not just "understanding most of it, so it is not a problem".
We will see how many years it will take and how many years/hours of boring memorising of words to build up your vocabulary. Just passive vocabulary, I am not talking about active, you don't need it for reading books.