Reader Lifespan (Longevity)

[Michele]

nerys, if you feel that strongly about DRM you might consider refusing to buy DRM'd products such as the Reader. That's really the only way it'll go away.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by nerys

When I have a real paper book FIRST you have physical ownership. Second its your physical property to do with as you please.

No, that's not so. Paper books are subject to pretty much the same legal restrictions as eBooks. When you buy a paper book you are buying the "medium"; you do not take legal ownership of the "contents". You can't legally make photocopies of it, and re-sell those, for example.

Exactly the same is true of e-Books. You own the physical file that you download but you don't own the "contents" of that file. You can't legally copy it and sell or give away those copies.

You can rant and rave about the "immoraility" of DRM all you want, but as far as most publishers are concerned, no DRM = no publishing of e-Books. Better to have DRM-protected e-Books than no e-Books.

There are many sources of non-DRM-protected books if you have a moral objection to it. There are 10s of thousands of out of copyright books available for example.

[alex_d]

it's possible to replace the battery (it's separated from you only by some screws). also, big tip for li-ion longevity: don't let it run down. especially don't let it stay drained!

[HarryT]

I have owned many devices with built-in batteries - iPods, etc. Seen many a lengthy thread about "worries" about battery life. Never owned a device long enough for the (theoretically) limited life of Li Ion batteries to be a problem - there's always a better device to switch to long, long before it's an issue .

[ghostwheel]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I have owned many devices with built-in batteries - iPods, etc. Seen many a lengthy thread about "worries" about battery life. Never owned a device long enough for the (theoretically) limited life of Li Ion batteries to be a problem - there's always a better device to switch to long, long before it's an issue .

I am on my second battery on my TC1100, and it has a very short lifespan already. With NiCd I had to throw away already a couple of electric toothbrushes and shavers. When a device is good enough for your needs, you'll easily want to keep it for many years.

[yvanleterrible]

As a professional cabinet maker I have worked with battery operated tools since their inception in the early eighties. I used to buy the best tools. But when the batteries got down to unusable power levels at recharge, I was sticker shocked when faced with replacement necessity. This is where manufacturers make their money. One battery costs from a third to half of a tool's original price, and if you figure that the tool came with two batteries...

The other factor that now keeps me from buying the best battery operated tool is the volt war. When I started working with BOp. tools the standard voltage was 7.2v. Trying to find one now is also an expensive proposition. And since the tools that use them are still in perfect working order, again I'm stuck with those high prices. Up to date the price of batteries passed the original price of the tool threefold!

The advice I'd give? Buy cheap 12v. tools that come with at least two batteries. When the batteries run down, the tool will also be at it's end. Then you can buy an other cheap tool at a slightly higher voltage.

I wonder if someone is going to make cheaper readers soon!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I wonder if someone is going to make cheaper readers soon!

I think they call them "paperback books", Yvan .

[bob_ninja]

I certainly do reach battery failures before I am ready to move on to a newer gadget. Often I get used to a gadget and simply don't need to switch. My Palm Zire71 does exactly what I need, no more no less. Its LiIon battery now has noticably less capacity and in a year or two I may have to replace it. Of course, it is sealed and not as easy to replace as Reader's.

Power tools are different. They have packs which consist from 12 (14.4V) to 16 (19.2V) C size NiCds in a series. Inevitably some of the cells in a pack will fail sooner then others. They may even go into reverse, negative voltage and pretty much ruin the entire pack. Clearly with a higher number of cells the odds are higher than one or two premature failured cells will ruin the pack. Like you said, go with smaller voltage - less cells. I am so stubborn that I actually converted a pack to 12 AAs that are all removable and I can recondition and/or replace as necessary.

Back to electronic gadgets such as reader, they generally have smaller simpler packs. LiIon I believe generates 3.6V so they usually have a single cell, maybe 2. Thus the problem of many cells is not present. They generally do last a long time, but that is a relative term, right? So LiIon will fail after 5-10 years, depends. As most gadgets don't wear much over time and can last a long time that means battery replacement is necessary at least once to keep it for 10+ years.

Sealed designs can be Ok so long as replacement is easy. The Reader design is such an example. Seems there are only a few screws to remove the cover and there is the battery, easy to access and replace. No such luck for my Palm Zire71.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by bob_ninja

I certainly do reach battery failures before I am ready to move on to a newer gadget.

What can I say - I'm a gadget junkie, hopelessly addicted. For me, the thought of using the same reader in 5 years time that I'm using now is almost inconvceivable. All my friends take advantage of me and get my "2nd hand toys" at ludicrously low prices when I move on to the next thing .

I'm hoping that the current Reader is only the first in a long line of improved devices.

[RWood]

Harry, you sound like me in always going for the "next best thing." However somewhere along the way I will (every now and then) just keep a gadget long past when others have moved on. My mp3 player for example is the original Creative Zen with 30 GB -- long out of favor.

I expect that there will be several "improvements" in the PRS-5xx line and then a new genration of readers following that. Enhance the b+w reader (i.e.: 16 gray scales rather than 4) and then change the goalposts with the introduction of a color reader.

Each sig change would be associated with a price drop as they are skimming the market now and as the price drops, the sales will increase. By the time the current reader needs a new battery I would expect it to be just a few dollars more to move to a whole new reader. One problem with getting batteries for 5 year old devices is that the new battery was most likely produced around the same time that the reader was produced and has been on the shelf since then.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What can I say - I'm a gadget junkie, hopelessly addicted. For me, the thought of using the same reader in 5 years time that I'm using now is almost inconvceivable. All my friends take advantage of me and get my "2nd hand toys" at ludicrously low prices when I move on to the next thing .

I'm hoping that the current Reader is only the first in a long line of improved devices.

A reader is more than a trivial gadget.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by RWood

Harry, you sound like me in always going for the "next best thing." However somewhere along the way I will (every now and then) just keep a gadget long past when others have moved on. My mp3 player for example is the original Creative Zen with 30 GB -- long out of favor.

Let me slightly amend what I said before. I buy new versions of gadgets as long as they have what are, for me, worthwhile improvements. Eg, I'm still buying new iPods as Apple bring them out because, for me, each new generation has brought something new that I value.

Things where I don't need new features, I don't buy. For example, I have a very basic mobile (cell) phone because I am one of these strange people who regards a mobile phone as a device on which to make phone calls, full stop. I don't need all the fancy extras that the modern phones have - cameras, MP3 players, FM radios, etc.

I very much consider the eBook reader market to be in its infancy. There will undoubtedly be new devices released over the next few years which offer significant enhancements. As I said, I don't see myself using the Sony Reader in 5 years time simply because by then I'm sure that Sony, or another manufacturer, will have come out with something a lot better. That's why I'm not really bothered by the theoretical life-span of the Reader's battery.

[nerys]

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No, that's not so. Paper books are subject to pretty much the same legal restrictions as eBooks. When you buy a paper book you are buying the "medium"; you do not take legal ownership of the "contents". You can't legally make photocopies of it, and re-sell those, for example.
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You are simply wrong. when you buy a book or cd or dvd that copy is your PROPERTY including all the CONTENTS of that medium. Period. a life long of DISTORTION and effectively (hate to use this word but its proper) brainwashing has caused us to somehow think a book is different from a car and different from a CD or DVD

there are 2 kinds of RIGHTS regarding what we buy. I call them PPR and IPR

PPR is Personal Property Rights IPR is Intellectual Property Rights.

When you buy a car or a watch or a box or a CD or a book or a DVD you OWN the PPR rights to that object including anything it containts. ANY EULA's contrary to this are NULL AND VOID on inception. they can not take your property rights from you.

the ONLY time you do not own is when you RENT

When you BUY a movie its your property when you RENT a movie NOW you do not own it or its contents NOW its being LOANED to you with conditions just like renting an apartment or renting a car.

Don't mince words with me. You specify two SEPERATE actions and try to make them sound like one. I damned well CAN photocopy ANY BOOK I OWN any time I want as many times as I want any way I want.

NO I can NOT resell those copies* since that CHANGES from PPR rights to IPR rights.

I CAN however RESELL those copies if I sell an ORIGINAL copy with each. so if I BUY an object and hack it up I can then SELL that copy. If I buy 10 CD's and make a Custom MIX set out of some of the songs on those disc you bet your butt I can sell that mix disc as long as I INCLUDE each disk I sourced it from WITH the "mix" disc. this is PERFECTLY LEGAL.

Once I SEPERATE the original from the NEW that I make NOW and ONLY NOW Iam I violating there IPR or intellectual property rights by generating a new AND seperate work (IE keeping the original)

This is no different than buying a Ford Bronco MODDING the crap out of it and then SELLING said bronco on ebay. PERFECTLY LEGAL.

its MY PROPERTY. now since I do not own the IPR to that bronco I can not "DUPLICATE" the bronco on my own and sell that (modded or not)

Starting to make some sense now ?

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Exactly the same is true of e-Books. You own the physical file that you download but you don't own the "contents" of that file. You can't legally copy it and sell or give away those copies.
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Right and wrong again NO different than ABOVE with ONE twist. they have STOLEN our PPR rights under the guise of DRM via the DMCA (an illegal law as far as I am concerned)

If the ebook has no DRM you are free to do the SAME THINGS you can do with a paper book.

IF the Book DOES have DRM you are STILL free to do the same things as a paperbook as long as you do not break the DRM (which as we know EFFECTIVELY prevents you from enacting your fair use and PPR rights)

The Judge in the 321 Studios case was an idiot but made the conundrum clear. YES user are allowed to backup there DVD's YES 321 studios is allowed to make software to do so SO LONG as they do not DECRYPT the data (effectively preventing them from doing what they are legally allowed to do) see the problem now ?? starting to make sense ?

They can not remove our PPR rights no one would stand for that so they END RUN around them with the DMCA

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You can rant and rave about the "immoraility" of DRM all you want, but as far as most publishers are concerned, no DRM = no publishing of e-Books. Better to have DRM-protected e-Books than no e-Books.
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Then don't publish them cause I won;t buy them. Period. I would rather have NO BOOKS than DRM since having DRM effectively MEANS having no books in the end.

THEY do not make the RULEs. I MAKE THE RULES with my Wallet. (I being US Consumers) the sooner we realize this the sooner we can ELIMINATE DRM nearly overnight.

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There are many sources of non-DRM-protected books if you have a moral objection to it. There are 10s of thousands of out of copyright books available for example.
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The Problem is our copyright laws are so flawed that the non copyrighted books ie public domain is now effectively STATIC. NOTHING NEW will ever enter the public domain again unless someone VOLUNTARILY puts it there with very fee exceptions.

Copyright was not supposed to be a PERMANENT right it was supposed to be the grant of a TEMPORARY monopoly to encourage creation.

You have no idea how much it bothers me that DISNEY was CREATED on the VERY THING they fight so hard to prevent. on the USAGE OF OTHER PEOPLE's WORK to make there work. and now they want to make sure NO ONE ELSE will have the same change by effectively ELIMINATED the public domain.

Remember Owning a CAR is NO DIFFERENT than owning a book. both have PPR and IPR the one is just called copyright while the other is called patents. its the SAME THING.

when you buy it YOU OWN IT (lock stock and bond) so long as you do not violate the IPR of the rightful IP owner.

Imagine if FORD got a law passed that said painting your car without permission is illegal ? that adding "lights" or "wings" or "rims" or seat covers etc.. etc.. was illegal without there permission ?

What if it was illegal to modify your house ? (for many the IP for that house belongs to someone else) what about modifying your bed or bureau ?

Is it illegal to paint your bike ? add a spinner to it ? Some extended handlebars ?

Is it illegal to do these things ? you do NOT own the IPR likely to any of them ? Huffy owns the IPR for there bikes is it illegal to add streamers to your little daughters handle bars without huffies permission ?

Would you stand for any of this being illegal ? then why do you stand for it with your books cd's and movies ?

THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT !! No matter HOW many times they try to brainwash you to think otherwise they are NO DIFFERENT. they are EXACTLY the same thing.

ONE has "physical rights" (those are your rights) and one has INTELLECTUAL rights (those are theirs)

I can buy a magazine and cut it up. Scan it into my computer. Print it back out. Archive it. Print in in B&W and color it in. etc.. etc.. Make an EBOOK out of it.

all of this is LEGAL its your PROPERTY

but once you make a copy and illegally give it out NOW that "copy" is no longer yours once its seperate in ownership from the original. now its a new derivative work with ONE more attribute. SEPERATE new derivitive work. you made something NEW and PRESENTED it as your own (IE without the original)

NOW your violating there IP Rights. NOW your breaking the law.

This is not good enough for them. so they made up the DMCA and now want to eliminate any "hardformats" so they can copy protect everything effectively ELIMINATING your RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP to your property without ACTUALLY removing those rights.

VERY SICK and TWISTED. Not only immoral but ILLEGAL - its just sad that our courts are too stupid or "paid" to see this.

I bought the sony reader because it supports MANY native NON DRM'd formats without the need to "register" or "activate" with a computer. that why NOT ONLY was reading txt pdf etc.. important to me but it was important WITHOUT a computer. IE pop in the SD card.

THAT was the deciding factor in me buying this reader.

If they release ebooks with NO DRM and NO EULA (the LAW is sufficient don't need extra rules) its already illegal to copy and share something I don't need a contract to remind me of this and lack of such contract does NOT make it legal for me to share it)

and at a reasonable price (SIGNIFICANTLY less than the paper release) they I will gladly buy Ebooks.

Till then NO NO and NO. I did not even BUY a dvd player until I could "crack" the encryption easily. NO i don't "pirate" movies (its NOT stealing its copyright infringement another brainwashing analogy) but its still wrong.

Until people stand up and say NO they will continue to walk all over us.

Remember companies do not make the rules and neither do GOVERNMENTS ... Not without our permission.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[nerys]

Sorry for the rants guys but this is a subject near and dear to my heart and I hate seeing intelligent people "sucked" into the brainwashing of handing over there rights. Drives me crazy!! :-( PLEASE if anything was unclear or did not make sense ASK and I will do my best to clarify.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by nerys

When you buy a car or a watch or a box or a CD or a book or a DVD you OWN the PPR rights to that object including anything it containts. ANY EULA's contrary to this are NULL AND VOID on inception. they can not take your property rights from you.

I'm in the UK, Chris, so please bear in mind that what I say below relates to British law. I am am both a book author and a software author so this is a subject that I have some small knowledge of, at least insofar as the law applies within the UK.

In the UK, such things are covered by a law called the 1996 "Copyright, Designs, and Patents" act.

Don't mince words with me. You specify two SEPERATE actions and try to make them sound like one. I damned well CAN photocopy ANY BOOK I OWN any time I want as many times as I want any way I want.

Under British law, Chris, what is called "Mechanical Reproduction" of copyrighted material is illegal. You are allowed to quote from a copyrighted work for reference or review purposes, but that's as far as it goes. You are allow to copy no more than 1 chapter of a book, or 1 article from a magazine.

The Problem is our copyright laws are so flawed that the non copyrighted books ie public domain is now effectively STATIC. NOTHING NEW will ever enter the public domain again unless someone VOLUNTARILY puts it there with very fee exceptions.

That is not true in the UK or, indeed, throughout the rest of the EU. Books enter the public domain here 70 years after the death of the author - ie any works by authors who died in or before 1936 are now in the public domain. The British government has recently rejected industry requests to extend the period of copyright protection on the grounds that such an extension would be anti-competitive.

Best wishes,