Whither science fiction ? - Page 4

DiapDealer · 03-23-2011, 09:08 AM

It's easy to get caught up in genre labeling. But it really only affects people who need to shelve (categorize) books. Most readers can safely ignore them. And thankfully, most stories themselves seem to ignore the imaginary lines drawn in shifting pudding.

fettpett · 03-27-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I thought it had been determined long ago that Star Wars was Fantasy.

I've always considered it a Sci-Fantasy as it has elements of both hard core sci-fi and the obvious fantasy elements surrounding the Force.

The Saga of the Seven Suns by Kevin J Anderson is a good space opera thats more hard sci-fi than anything.

Alternate History is where a lot of the new ideas for Sci-Fi is coming from these days, but even that has almost too many of the same ideas, focusing on what if's from if the German's won WW2 and South won the Civil War

wagedomain · 03-28-2011, 04:51 PM

I know exactly what this thread is about.

I love books like Ender's Game, in fact I enjoy the whole series for their scifi concepts and merits.

Lately, though, it's really hard to find scifi that's not generic Space Marine junk or really silly. The particular problem I have is endings. Lots of authors have great ideas but can't seem to end their books well.

Example: The Accidental Time Machine

It's an amazing "how is he going to get out of THIS" kind of mess that just sort of ends out of the blue with very little satisfaction.

If I can make a scifi recommendation: Version 43 by Philip Palmer. Amazing scifi that is unpredictable, and screws with your head.

mldavis2 · 03-29-2011, 07:26 AM

The best Sci-Fi is timeless, like any good novel. That doesn't assume 'new' themes as I mentioned earlier. For me, the better ones create alternate universes or scenarios and use them to examine political, moral, ethical questions and the human condition. A recent read for me was "The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia" by Ursula K. Le Guin which contrasts earth "Terra" with another world in which there are no possessions and no laws, contrasting the advantages of each. When you seek free literature, you usually (but not always) get what you paid for.

kennyc · 03-29-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mldavis2

The best Sci-Fi is timeless, like any good novel. That doesn't assume 'new' themes as I mentioned earlier. For me, the better ones create alternate universes or scenarios and use them to examine political, moral, ethical questions and the human condition. A recent read for me was "The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia" by Ursula K. Le Guin which contrasts earth "Terra" with another world in which there are no possessions and no laws, contrasting the advantages of each. When you seek free literature, you usually (but not always) get what you paid for.

Freeshadow · 03-29-2011, 08:35 AM

I'don't get it why people like Lem so much - maybe he got damn good translations.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-29-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

I'don't get it why people like Lem so much - maybe he got damn good translations.

More than that: Lem habitually explored higher SF concepts beyond mere technological issues. His Solaris explored the human psyche and the definitions of thought and memory... it remains one of my favorite novels.

Few other SF authors have touched on similar subjects as well (Philip K. Dick was another good author for the psychological aspects of SF concepts). It's a subject that is difficult to handle, and harder to find. It's one that I'd love to take a crack at, myself, but haven't found the proper angle yet.

Freeshadow · 03-29-2011, 10:12 AM

well Solaris can be sum up in 3 conclusions following each other

1. The strongest memories in us are the most painful ones. ->
2. What teaches and shapes us most are our sufferings. ->
3. What and how we are is the sum of our blood and tears.

Well that's certainly right, but I think every buddhist neophyte could tell you too - in a far less boring way old Stanisław did. (If you liked that book the translation must be awesome - I have the original flying around here and it's one of the most boring pieces I ever read)

The only thing he was remarkable at was ignorance of the fact that some things which were fiction and future-to-come in his young years, have already happened or begun NOW. (As was recognizeable from his discussions with other authors, or interviewers. He was e.g. pretty ignorant about the existance of the net.

kennyc · 03-29-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

I'don't get it why people like Lem so much - maybe he got damn good translations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

More than that: Lem habitually explored higher SF concepts beyond mere technological issues. His Solaris explored the human psyche and the definitions of thought and memory... it remains one of my favorite novels.

Few other SF authors have touched on similar subjects as well (Philip K. Dick was another good author for the psychological aspects of SF concepts). It's a subject that is difficult to handle, and harder to find. It's one that I'd love to take a crack at, myself, but haven't found the proper angle yet.

Well, I don't get it either. I've read some of both and neither of those guys do much for me.

DiapDealer · 03-29-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

If you liked that book the translation must be awesome

Non-sequitor.

Your logic excludes the most obvious explanation... which is that you simply have different "likes" than people who enjoy Lem's work. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Why is it easier to believe that someone who enjoys something that you don't, must have a fault or an excuse (great translation) of some kind?

kennyc · 03-29-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Non-sequitor.

Your logic excludes the most obvious explanation... which is that you simply have different "likes" than people who enjoy Lem's work. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Why is it easier to believe that someone who enjoys something that you don't, must have a fault or an excuse (great translation) of some kind?

But...but....but.....aren't we all exactly alike?

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-29-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

(If you liked that book the translation must be awesome - I have the original flying around here and it's one of the most boring pieces I ever read)

Right, everyone's tastes are different. Arthur C. Clarke is considered boring to many, but he's one of my favorite authors as well.

Whereas I won't touch the military SF that so many fans love.

DiapDealer · 03-29-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

But...but....but.....aren't we all exactly alike?

If we were, there'd be but one author... and he/she would be very widely read indeed!

Freeshadow · 03-29-2011, 12:49 PM

@ DiapDealer
It 'd be a great piece for a short story but not for the manuscript-meter he made of it

@Steven Lyle Jordan
I'm no mil-fan either - sociotech SF in Asimovs way if far more my taste.
But I had to find out that a lot of stuff is mislabeled as mil, just because such a conflict is part of the background, ignoring that the real important and in-depth parts of the story play on completely different levels. The Vvorkosigan Saga is a perfect example for me.

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03-23-2011, 09:08 AM	#46
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,552 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	It's easy to get caught up in genre labeling. But it really only affects people who need to shelve (categorize) books. Most readers can safely ignore them. And thankfully, most stories themselves seem to ignore the imaginary lines drawn in shifting pudding.

03-28-2011, 04:51 PM	#48
wagedomain Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 12000 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Kindle	I know exactly what this thread is about. I love books like Ender's Game, in fact I enjoy the whole series for their scifi concepts and merits. Lately, though, it's really hard to find scifi that's not generic Space Marine junk or really silly. The particular problem I have is endings. Lots of authors have great ideas but can't seem to end their books well. Example: The Accidental Time Machine It's an amazing "how is he going to get out of THIS" kind of mess that just sort of ends out of the blue with very little satisfaction. If I can make a scifi recommendation: Version 43 by Philip Palmer. Amazing scifi that is unpredictable, and screws with your head.

03-29-2011, 07:26 AM	#49
mldavis2 Coffee Nut Posts: 410 Karma: 298350 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Missouri Device: Kindle 3; K4PC; Calibre	The best Sci-Fi is timeless, like any good novel. That doesn't assume 'new' themes as I mentioned earlier. For me, the better ones create alternate universes or scenarios and use them to examine political, moral, ethical questions and the human condition. A recent read for me was "The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia" by Ursula K. Le Guin which contrasts earth "Terra" with another world in which there are no possessions and no laws, contrasting the advantages of each. When you seek free literature, you usually (but not always) get what you paid for.

03-29-2011, 08:35 AM	#51
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,793 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	I'don't get it why people like Lem so much - maybe he got damn good translations.

03-29-2011, 10:12 AM	#53
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,793 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	well Solaris can be sum up in 3 conclusions following each other 1. The strongest memories in us are the most painful ones. -> 2. What teaches and shapes us most are our sufferings. -> 3. What and how we are is the sum of our blood and tears. Well that's certainly right, but I think every buddhist neophyte could tell you too - in a far less boring way old Stanisław did. (If you liked that book the translation must be awesome - I have the original flying around here and it's one of the most boring pieces I ever read) The only thing he was remarkable at was ignorance of the fact that some things which were fiction and future-to-come in his young years, have already happened or begun NOW. (As was recognizeable from his discussions with other authors, or interviewers. He was e.g. pretty ignorant about the existance of the net.

03-29-2011, 12:49 PM	#59
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,793 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	@ DiapDealer It 'd be a great piece for a short story but not for the manuscript-meter he made of it @Steven Lyle Jordan I'm no mil-fan either - sociotech SF in Asimovs way if far more my taste. But I had to find out that a lot of stuff is mislabeled as mil, just because such a conflict is part of the background, ignoring that the real important and in-depth parts of the story play on completely different levels. The Vvorkosigan Saga is a perfect example for me.

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