What does everyone have against EPUB?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

And I finally had to add a margin (left and right) so that stupid epub page number thingie wouldn't be shown in my text...

I did try to tell the epub to use a certain font, but that didn't work...

Using a certain font gave me a problem as well, but after I embedded the font file into the epub and updated my css file, everything was fine...

as for the page number thingie: it tried OpenInkpot for a while (spring 2009). It has better handling of the epub book as such (including page numbers in a status bar in stead of on your page through your text), but is quite minimal at css. No "drop capitals", alas...

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Using a certain font gave me a problem as well, but after I embedded the font file into the epub and updated my css file, everything was fine...

as for the page number thingie: it tried OpenInkpot for a while (spring 2009). It has better handling of the epub book as such (including page numbers in a status bar in stead of on your page through your text), but is quite minimal at css. No "drop capitals", alas...

No OIP for the mini (V5) yet, otherwise I'd try it. The lack of drop capitals isn't too bad, as Mobipocket doesn't support it either and my other reader doesn't support epub. Maybe I should try ZuluReader again...

Problem with embedding fonts into my epub is the size of the epub. It will grow!

[orwell2k]

I haven't been through all the replies on this forum, so forgive me if I'm repeating issues or raising points already dismissed. But my problem with ePub is perhaps not so much the format itself as the reader implementations on devices. They seem to handle displaying ePub files very poorly. And perhaps the limitations I expereience are a consequence of the format itself, but I'm not sure.

I use FB2 almost exclusively, so any Mobi, ePub, LIT or whatever files I obtain or buy, DRM or not, almost always end up as FB2 for my personal use. People whine about the loss of Mobi DRM on the BeBook (Hanlin V3 clones and new V5), but to be honest I found the reader implementation pretty poor. The ePub reader is worse, and will probably improve to about the same level, but IMHO will still be basically crap.

Not that the FB2 reader solves all a user's problems. I love the flexibility of displaying FB2 files, in terms of choosing fonts, font sizes, interline spacing, etc., and being able to use a CSS file in the crengine folder to really tailor your display. The "packaging" of ePubs seems to exclude this kind of flexibility, although I'm not really sure. I figured as an "open" format employing XML it would be child's play, but apparently not. FB2 is an XML and seems to offer maximum flexibility.

But FB2 does not offer good linking/footnoting, which can be an issue with some books, especially non-fiction when they employ a lot of chapter notes and links to other sections. As pointed out, FB2 also does not offer good multi-level TOC support. In many ways these issues could be simple to fix by updating the FB2 schema, so maybe this will happen. But for the bulk of my reading for novels and so on, FB2 rules!

And why is FB2 not more widely used? Well partly because it was developed in a non-English language region (Russia) and not supported by a mega-corp. The Russians have a huge source of free classic Russian literature, and the FB2 format has been used for many years as one of the nice formats for creating eBooks from HTML/TXT files.

I have been using eBooks for about 7-8 years, from the days when I used a Pocket PC device (Acer n10) to read eBooks. Even then I tried LIT and Mobi readers on the device, but the good ol' Haali reader for FB2 files still one the day. On eInk devices it's CoolReader and FBReader, but FB2 is still the format to beat, at least for my uses. And as I don't mind the little extra work of converting most of my source files to FB2 for reading, I'll stick with it.

And one other point. The majority of supposedly proof-read eBooks I have bought tend to have a number of formatting errors (things like spaces before apostrohpes, missing quotes, etc.) and typos/grammatical errors. So much for proof-reading - what the hell are we paying for (another rant entirely)? These are in the source file, not a product of any conversion to FB2. So since I have to correct most books anyway, the extra work to create FB2 is incremental, and worth the effort.

Just my $0.02 worth...

[Arturo]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

But FB2 does not offer good linking/footnoting, which can be an issue with some books, especially non-fiction when they employ a lot of chapter notes and links to other sections.

The main reason I am still using FB2 and not EPUB is the capability of displaying footnotes. See first attachment.
I must agree with your comment regarding links. Not that I miss it much.

As pointed out, FB2 also does not offer good multi-level TOC support.

What do you mean by good? I have an example in the second attachment. It has only two levels, but it is possible to create more - I think 10 is the maximum.

In many ways these issues could be simple to fix by updating the FB2 schema, so maybe this will happen.

I'm afraid this will not happen soon. As far as I remember, this format is not updated anymore. Though I hope I'm wrong.

But for the bulk of my reading for novels and so on, FB2 rules!

Agreed!

[slm]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's just the specific implementation on the Hanlin. If you look at my photograph of the CyBook Opus displaying an ePub file here, I'm sure you'll agree that the page number isn't the least bit objectionable.

Oddly enough the Adobe ADE implementation for Windows suffers from the same problem--page numbers overwrite text! There is something wrong with software designers who think we'd rather know what page we are on than what the page says.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by Arturo

The main reason I am still using FB2 and not EPUB is the capability of displaying footnotes. See first attachment.
I must agree with your comment regarding links. Not that I miss it much.


What do you mean by good? I have an example in the second attachment. It has only two levels, but it is possible to create more - I think 10 is the maximum.


I'm afraid this will not happen soon. As far as I remember, this format is not updated anymore. Though I hope I'm wrong.


Agreed!

Great info - thanks for correcting me on those points.

2 questions:

(1) What reader are you using on your V3 clone - FBReader under OI, CoolReader under your suppliers firmware, or something else?

(2) What tool do you use to create FB2 files - BookDesigner? If so, how do you create/convert the footnotes? I have a couple of books that come with notes and would love to have them as proper footnotes.

Thanks again!

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by slm

Oddly enough the Adobe ADE implementation for Windows suffers from the same problem--page numbers overwrite text! There is something wrong with software designers who think we'd rather know what page we are on than what the page says.

And what's with the whacky justification margins - I guess the big one on the right is to accommodate the page number? Why can't a simple header/footer bar be used to display all useful book info like title, page number, bookmarks, etc.? It only sacrifices a line of text and is much easier on the eye and the reading experience.

I'm with you - when the revolution comes, and after we've lined up and shot the lawyers, we need to get eReader software designers out there and see if we can't motivate them to do better

[tompe]

Originally Posted by slm

Oddly enough the Adobe ADE implementation for Windows suffers from the same problem--page numbers overwrite text! There is something wrong with software designers who think we'd rather know what page we are on than what the page says.

What does the ePub specification says about this? Is there a minimal margin width that is allowed for en ePub document?

This is not a bad design decision. It is most probably just insufficient testing so that this case with page number overwriting the text did not appear.

[Arturo]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

(1) What reader are you using on your V3 clone - FBReader under OI, CoolReader under your suppliers firmware, or something else?

CoolReader 3.0.18 or later - it is included in the March 26 OI firmware. I am using the April 9 LBook firmware which contains 3.0.19. Not sure if CR in other firmwares handle footnotes or not. FBReader definitely doesn't.

(2) What tool do you use to create FB2 files - BookDesigner? If so, how do you create/convert the footnotes? I have a couple of books that come with notes and would love to have them as proper footnotes.

I am using OOO FBTools on OpenOffice.org. Had to struggle with it in the beginning. You know, the documentation is in Russian... Figured out the basics somehow and realised that it is rather simple to use for fiction books. It was not obvious how to insert a picture properly, but footnotes work fine without any hocus-pocus.
I tried BookDesigner, but not using it anymore. Could not find out how to create footnotes in it, but multilevel TOC worked OK.
This is a bit here. If you need further info, maybe you could send a PM. I am at work now so may not reply at once...

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by Arturo

CoolReader 3.0.18 or later - it is included in the March 26 OI firmware. I am using the April 9 LBook firmware which contains 3.0.19. Not sure if CR in other firmwares handle footnotes or not. FBReader definitely doesn't.


I am using OOO FBTools on OpenOffice.org. Had to struggle with it in the beginning. You know, the documentation is in Russian... Figured out the basics somehow and realised that it is rather simple to use for fiction books. It was not obvious how to insert a picture properly, but footnotes work fine without any hocus-pocus.
I tried BookDesigner, but not using it anymore. Could not find out how to create footnotes in it, but multilevel TOC worked OK.
This is a bit here. If you need further info, maybe you could send a PM. I am at work now so may not reply at once...

Yeah, thanks for that. I struggled with an older version of OOO-FBTools but frankly, gave up. As a Mac user I am keen to try again, so I will PM you (at the moment I use BD on a PC or via VMWare Fusion to run it under WinXP).