New eBook and digital content licensing terms for library lending - Page 4

ATDrake · 02-25-2011, 03:34 PM

Well, now I have another publisher whose books I don't need to buy to add to the list. Thanks, HarperCollins, for saving me money!

Personally, whenever authors/publishers disparage* or outright try to move against public libraries, it makes me just that much more disinclined to have anything† to do with their works. Price-fixing for individual consumer buys is one thing, but do not mess with the library.

* Authors who whine on their blogs about how their fans reading their books at the library are cutting into their profits and those ingrates should be buying all their books on the release date to push them up the bestseller lists deserve to have their books all read and recommended by their fans to new readers for further reading via the library.

† Well, almost anything.

grouch2 · 02-25-2011, 03:37 PM

Harper-Collins includes the authors Kay Hooper, Debbie Macomber, and Micheal Crichton. None of my library's OverDrive Harper-Collins books have circulated more than 20 time in the past year. Maybe other libraries have a higher turnover for these books and authors.

Oh, yeah, OverDrive suggests that we re-think allowing people to place holds on Harper-Collins books. Imagine waiting for a book for a month, only to find out it no longer exists!

Catlady · 02-25-2011, 03:39 PM

So ... a library has a specific budget for acquisitions. It can get e-books with unlimited circulation, or it can get HC e-books that will expire after a year or so. Which is it more likely to buy with its limited funds?

Is HC thinking they'll make more money this way? I can't see they'll make it from the libraries. Only way they will is if people buy the book instead of using the library--but will that really happen? I think this scheme is just nuts.

Joykins · 02-25-2011, 03:47 PM

http://www.courtneymilan.com/ramblin...our-seed-corn/

ATDrake · 02-25-2011, 03:48 PM

The only way that this could possibly work out would be if HC offered deep discounts on their titles with further bundling pricedrops on multiple copies and "renewals".

But even then, if a book is going to be checked out often, it's probably not worth it to the libraries compared to books from more reasonable publishers.

And I wouldn't bet on this pushing up HC's consumer e-books sale via library unavailability, like their marketing department seems to think it would.

People who are already inclined to buy HC's e-books individually will still do so; people who want to read a library edition first will turn to paper (assuming no physical vision/mobility issues); people who aren't inclined to purchase still won't, only they'll read some other publisher's e-books first and maybe enjoy them enough to garner new sales for any series titles that the library doesn't have.

Frankly, if I were a librarian in charge of new e-acquisitions, I'd go "WTF?! Screw this, we're getting in extra copies of the Random House bestsellers from now on!"

Joykins · 02-25-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

So ... a library has a specific budget for acquisitions. It can get e-books with unlimited circulation, or it can get HC e-books that will expire after a year or so. Which is it more likely to buy with its limited funds?

Is HC thinking they'll make more money this way? I can't see they'll make it from the libraries. Only way they will is if people buy the book instead of using the library--but will that really happen? I think this scheme is just nuts.

Well, I don't think it'll last long if they care about library sales (big IF?), unless they get most other big publishers to go along with it (Agency pricing ring any bells?).

In which case I see libraries seeking out more niche publishers and offering many fewer new books.

I totally agree this may push up library loans of HC paper books. It would probably be my first choice to replace my e-borrowing.

MrsJoseph · 02-25-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Well, now I have another publisher whose books I don't need to buy to add to the list. Thanks, HarperCollins, for saving me money!

Personally, whenever authors/publishers disparage* or outright try to move against public libraries, it makes me just that much more disinclined to have anything† to do with their works. Price-fixing for individual consumer buys is one thing, but do not mess with the library.

* Authors who whine on their blogs about how their fans reading their books at the library are cutting into their profits and those ingrates should be buying all their books on the release date to push them up the bestseller lists deserve to have their books all read and recommended by their fans to new readers for further reading via the library.

† Well, almost anything.

No more HarperCollins purchases from me.

khalleron · 02-25-2011, 05:14 PM

It always amazes me when writers or publishers attack libraries. Talk about biting the hand that feeds them.

Do they really think readers would buy more books if libraries didn't exist? Don't they remember their own early book-loving days when the public library was a treasure trove?

Or did they all grow up in palaces with massive private libraries?

Joykins · 02-25-2011, 09:05 PM

Interesting discussion on SBTB too.

HarperCollins Seeks to Limit Digital Lending, Access Patron Data, Generally Piss Off Readers

wyndslash · 02-25-2011, 10:12 PM

oh no, geo restrictions again!

do they want to keep certain parts of the world stupid?

*sigh sigh overreacting xD*

but no way am i letting publishers know where i live! pretty soon i might get encyclopedias outside my door!

ATDrake · 02-25-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

Interesting discussion on SBTB too.

HarperCollins Seeks to Limit Digital Lending, Access Patron Data, Generally Piss Off Readers

Huh. So not only do they want to squeeze the libraries for more money, they also want them to fork over my personal data?

Well, now I need not only avoid purchasing HC e-books (I had a couple on my wishlist), I can also save money by not buying any of their paper books too. Though I'd make an exception if say, Lois McMaster Bujold were to write a new Chalion novel.

I think I'm going to devote some time this weekend to looking up HC e-books being lent under the old non-expiring terms in the library listings and checking them out. Just because.

wyndslash · 02-25-2011, 10:32 PM

who are they to demand that libraries do this and that?

DDD:

JeremyR · 02-25-2011, 10:50 PM

In all honesty, good. Libraries need to stop spending so much money on dvds and cds and video games and computers and spend more on real books.

As far as I am concerned, libraries have no business lending these things, much less buying the amounts they do (my mother used to work for the library, they'd literally buy 100s of the top movies)

People wonder why Blockbuster went under. Sure, some of it was movies not costing $100 any more to buy, and competition from Netflix and Red Box. But libraries are a big factor too - why pay anything when you can get the movie for free?

pietrocrazy · 02-26-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyR

In all honesty, good. Libraries need to stop spending so much money on dvds and cds and video games and computers and spend more on real books.

As far as I am concerned, libraries have no business lending these things, much less buying the amounts they do (my mother used to work for the library, they'd literally buy 100s of the top movies)

People wonder why Blockbuster went under. Sure, some of it was movies not costing $100 any more to buy, and competition from Netflix and Red Box. But libraries are a big factor too - why pay anything when you can get the movie for free?

So I guess then you're in favor of getting rid of libraries altogether. After all, why pay for books when you can get them free from the library!

If you think libraries are a factor in Blockbuster going under, do you think they're a factor in Borders going under too?

wyndslash · 02-26-2011, 01:02 AM

well, if everyone can get those for free, then there should be constantly long lines at the library.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Would you use an eBook Lending Library	eddiek	General Discussions	72	03-12-2011 12:15 AM
Archive.org opens huge ebook lending library	rogue_librarian	News	37	02-27-2011 08:16 AM
Use of Digital Editions in a lending library	Paul Kobasa	PDF	3	02-03-2010 04:40 PM
Mac ebook library and adobe digital editions	codrutoctavian	Sony Reader	3	08-28-2009 07:30 PM
mac ebook library and adobe digital editions	codrutoctavian	Which one should I buy?	0	08-27-2009 06:57 PM

02-25-2011, 03:34 PM	#46
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	Well, now I have another publisher whose books I don't need to buy to add to the list. Thanks, HarperCollins, for saving me money! Personally, whenever authors/publishers disparage* or outright try to move against public libraries, it makes me just that much more disinclined to have anything† to do with their works. Price-fixing for individual consumer buys is one thing, but do not mess with the library. * Authors who whine on their blogs about how their fans reading their books at the library are cutting into their profits and those ingrates should be buying all their books on the release date to push them up the bestseller lists deserve to have their books all read and recommended by their fans to new readers for further reading via the library. † Well, almost anything.

02-25-2011, 03:37 PM	#47
grouch2 Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 8774 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Device: sony reader, nook, iPad	Harper-Collins includes the authors Kay Hooper, Debbie Macomber, and Micheal Crichton. None of my library's OverDrive Harper-Collins books have circulated more than 20 time in the past year. Maybe other libraries have a higher turnover for these books and authors. Oh, yeah, OverDrive suggests that we re-think allowing people to place holds on Harper-Collins books. Imagine waiting for a book for a month, only to find out it no longer exists!

02-25-2011, 03:39 PM	#48
Catlady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,345 Karma: 52398889 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip	So ... a library has a specific budget for acquisitions. It can get e-books with unlimited circulation, or it can get HC e-books that will expire after a year or so. Which is it more likely to buy with its limited funds? Is HC thinking they'll make more money this way? I can't see they'll make it from the libraries. Only way they will is if people buy the book instead of using the library--but will that really happen? I think this scheme is just nuts.

02-25-2011, 03:47 PM	#49
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,601 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	http://www.courtneymilan.com/ramblin...our-seed-corn/

02-25-2011, 03:48 PM	#50
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	The only way that this could possibly work out would be if HC offered deep discounts on their titles with further bundling pricedrops on multiple copies and "renewals". But even then, if a book is going to be checked out often, it's probably not worth it to the libraries compared to books from more reasonable publishers. And I wouldn't bet on this pushing up HC's consumer e-books sale via library unavailability, like their marketing department seems to think it would. People who are already inclined to buy HC's e-books individually will still do so; people who want to read a library edition first will turn to paper (assuming no physical vision/mobility issues); people who aren't inclined to purchase still won't, only they'll read some other publisher's e-books first and maybe enjoy them enough to garner new sales for any series titles that the library doesn't have. Frankly, if I were a librarian in charge of new e-acquisitions, I'd go "WTF?! Screw this, we're getting in extra copies of the Random House bestsellers from now on!"

02-25-2011, 05:14 PM	#53
khalleron Kate Posts: 1,681 Karma: 3165009 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oregon, United States Device: Nexus 7 2013, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Forma	It always amazes me when writers or publishers attack libraries. Talk about biting the hand that feeds them. Do they really think readers would buy more books if libraries didn't exist? Don't they remember their own early book-loving days when the public library was a treasure trove? Or did they all grow up in palaces with massive private libraries?

02-25-2011, 09:05 PM	#54
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,601 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	Interesting discussion on SBTB too. HarperCollins Seeks to Limit Digital Lending, Access Patron Data, Generally Piss Off Readers

02-25-2011, 10:12 PM	#55
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	oh no, geo restrictions again! do they want to keep certain parts of the world stupid? sigh sigh overreacting xD but no way am i letting publishers know where i live! pretty soon i might get encyclopedias outside my door!

02-25-2011, 10:32 PM	#57
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	who are they to demand that libraries do this and that? DDD:

02-25-2011, 10:50 PM	#58
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	In all honesty, good. Libraries need to stop spending so much money on dvds and cds and video games and computers and spend more on real books. As far as I am concerned, libraries have no business lending these things, much less buying the amounts they do (my mother used to work for the library, they'd literally buy 100s of the top movies) People wonder why Blockbuster went under. Sure, some of it was movies not costing $100 any more to buy, and competition from Netflix and Red Box. But libraries are a big factor too - why pay anything when you can get the movie for free?

02-26-2011, 01:02 AM	#60
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	well, if everyone can get those for free, then there should be constantly long lines at the library.