05-07-2009, 10:19 PM | #46 | |
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PDF has it's place. But that place is not as an eBook format. ePub can do a lot of complex layouts that will look good on different screen sizes. PDF is a fixed size. If you take a look at reflowing a PDF, it tends to look like shite. PDF's stron point is printing. You can give a PDF to someone who can print it as it was meant to be. ePub is meant for reading. Also, PDF is fixed. ePub (wothout DRM) I can go in and make changes to the layout by editing the CSS to have it look as I want. So if someone gives me an ePub with paragraph spaces, I can go in and fix that to how I want by removing them. It's all quite a nice system. PDF is just the way it is. Also ePub bases it's page numbers on the amount of content. So they are pretty consistent. I can say a specific passage is on page 35 and it will be no matter the size on screen. So if I take my 505 and resize to say medium, that passage on page 35 will still be on page 35 even if I found it on page 35 wen the size was set to small. |
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05-08-2009, 06:31 AM | #47 |
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PDF is to ePUB as image-based PDF is to text-based PDF.
For a given configuration, there's nothing in ePUB that can't be done in PDF (just take a screenshot of the ePUB and make a PDF out of it). But ePUB is flexible and versatile, you can change screen size, font size, margins, justification, headers, etc. With PDF you can't, it's WYGIWYS, there's no more there than what you see. |
05-08-2009, 09:29 AM | #48 | |
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For example, let's suppose Robin Logos is laying out _Pride and Prejudice_ in PDF for e-book readers. Zie lays it out four times, for 5 inch, 6 inch, 9.7 inch and 10 inch screens (as someone suggested in another post). Oh, then someone points out that it would be nice to be able to read this e-book on PDAs and mobile phones. Robin sighs, and lays out versions for 3 inch and 2.5 inch screens. Someone else points out that the 10 point type Robin has used, while perfectly fine for people with young, strong eyes like Robin's doesn't work so well for people with vision problems. Robin grumbles and lays out 12 extra versions, for all the above screen sizes with 12 and 14 point font. Someone *else* points out that some people need better separation between lines of text to be able to read rapidly, while some people will want less, to get as much text per page as possible. Robin screams in anguish, then, after 15 minutes stamping around swearing lays out 36 *more* versions for all the above combinations of screen and font sizes, with 3 and 6 point spacing between lines. Someone brings up the question of margin sizes. Robin Logos winds up in the dock for attempted murder, but the jury lets zir off on the grounds that no normal person would have done differently under the circumstances. And in the meantime, anyone wanting to read Robin's PDF of _Pride and Prejudice_ can choose between 54 versions! Talk about e-babel. And we haven't even gotten into fonts yet, or how to handle the pictures. |
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05-08-2009, 10:14 AM | #49 | |
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- Typesetters and graphical designers (yes, illustrations, too) like that control over the medium. - You get justification and full hyphenation, they are defined by limitations of your tools, not epub implementation on the device. - Licensing for embedded fonts is already solved. - There is only one version, "download for Sony Reader" (or bigger devices). Compared to Sony BBEB or ADE ePub DRMed content that we see these days, such a book would look gorgeous, and the only inconvenience for the end user is inability to increase font size. The perverse truth is that single DRM scheme used for ePub at this time, ADE, comes with PDF as a lure, too. |
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05-08-2009, 01:27 PM | #50 | |
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Whatever justification and hyphenation decisions the designer made, no matter how much less legible to the reader, check. Fonts whatever the designer chose no matter what the reader would prefer, check. Page size chosen by the designer, no matter what would be convenient for the reader, check. Font size chosen by the designer, no matter what the reader's needs might be, check. Like I said, all the limitations of print. In exchange for what? The more elegant layout of print--when print's layout is more elegant. To each their own, I guess. |
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05-08-2009, 01:55 PM | #51 |
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05-08-2009, 03:36 PM | #52 | |
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However, that doesn't mean that I agree pdf is the best format for ebooks, as Sonist appeared (I thought) to be saying. |
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05-08-2009, 10:00 PM | #53 | |
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As I mentioned before, the web has come a long way from the time of barely formatted text. Back then, a 9" screen was considered standard. Slow connections imposed content restrictions. Today, we have larger monitors, and much content which is designed to look a set way, and often is not viewable on a 2" screen. And some of it will get even more "designed," as capabilities improve. It seems like some think ebooks will forever be stuck in 6" gray and black screens. Or that the only purpose for ereaders is to read Word-looking text files, or text-books. But the fact is, if ereaders are to be successful, they have to be able to show pages which are designed, and meant to be viewed a certain way. I gave the example of Nylon Magazine above, because it is a publication which has been pushing electronic delivery. But this is where this whole industry will end up, fancy ads and all. PDF, with the new mobile SDK, provides the capability for reflowing simple text, thus addressing what seems to be the main concern for many here. But, PDF also has the capability to present publications like Nylon, the way they were intended to be viewed. By sticking to a single standard which addresses both requirements, publishers can simplify the currently over-fragmented, confusing to consumers market, and ensure some future compatibility. EPUB just muddies the waters, IMO. In a couple of years or so, when larger screens are cheap, and there is color, PDF will still be a valid format. You'll have continuity, with the same file format for both your color, designed pages, and for your all-text, reflowable pages. What is the problem with that? Last edited by Sonist; 05-08-2009 at 10:03 PM. |
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05-09-2009, 09:06 PM | #54 | ||
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You can do better than this. Quote:
I simply don't believe that pdf should be the *only* format e-books come in, for reasons I have gone into before. If you don't care about adjusting font size, or line spacing or justification or whatever, I'm happy for you and your young, strong eyes. Try to imagine what it's like being a person who does care about such thing. In no small part because you may someday be such a person. I am unfamiliar with the bleeding edge of pdf capability, but I stand ready to learn. Are you trying to tell me that it is possible to adjust font size and line spacing and margins in pdfs? That it is possible for the end-reader to specify the font s/he likes best? I would be very happy to hear that and would like to learn more about it--it would eliminate many of my objections to pdf as the default format for e-books. |
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05-10-2009, 04:04 AM | #55 |
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05-10-2009, 05:40 AM | #56 |
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yes, adobe is the winner.
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05-10-2009, 11:26 AM | #57 |
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My wife prefers to read with a larger size font then I do. That's fine. That means if I format an eBook, I only have to do it ONCE. She can increase the size easily. But if I had chosen PDF, I would have to make two copies. One for her and one for me. I'd rather one nice looking reflowable copy that I can make and that we can both use.
Now lets say I make PDF for my 505. They would look fine. Now Sony comes out with a reader that uses a larger screen and I get that. My PDF then are no good for it. But had I made it in ePub, it would be fine for a larger screen. PDF is fixed. ePub is not. The sample that I posted looks very nice on my 505 and on my computer screen. A PDF for a 6" screen is not going to look nice on a 9.7" screen. |
05-10-2009, 01:07 PM | #58 |
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05-10-2009, 01:46 PM | #59 | |
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I LOVE PDF. Right now, 100% of my digital books are in PDF format. I can't stand the other formats. |
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05-10-2009, 03:48 PM | #60 | |
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I love PDFs. I just don't think they're a great format for mobile devices with various screen sizes. I've got a lot of friends who do a good portion of their web browsing on their iPhones... PDF is never going to be a great format for a 2.5" screen. I read hundreds of ebooks on my Cliés before they died--I think two of them were PDFs, before I gave up on the software. No e-Ink reader currently offers the option that meant most to me on the Clié: font size control. A choice of six sizes, regardless of the original file's settings. For PDFs to become standardized, they need two major feature shifts: Much better reflow (and it doesn't matter how well ADE does reflow; the e-Ink readers aren't using ADE), including reflow that works on phones, and the ability to shift font sizes down as well as up. 10 pt font on a 3.5x4.5" page, for my 6" screen, works me; putting that same file on a 9" screen would make the text too big to be comfortable. I suppose that could be covered by allowing it to zoom out--but if I wanted to lose 20% of my screen to margins, I'd've added those in. And if publishers want PDFs to become the standard format for mobile ebook readers, they need to start including the right metadata. Or acknowledge the legality of sending a copy to someone else, who has the software necessary to make the file work on their machine. |
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