Now that Bookeen's Paris Expo attendance is over...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cmbs

It's not fixed, and it's been how many months? Nor are any of the other bugs fixed.

If you look in this thread you'll find a discussion of what was fixed in v538. It was a lot of things.

What is your excuse why they sold a bad product to begin with?

I don't personally believe it is a "bad product". It has a few things that could be improved, to be sure, but what product doesn't? For the task it's designed for - that of reading fiction, cover to cover, it works pretty well.

What is your excuse why they continue selling without making fixes?

But they HAVE made fixes. I refer you again to the thread that I've given you a link to above.

What is your excuse why they don't answer customer emails?

No excuses there. That's an area which definitely needs major improvement.

What is your excuse why they'd produce an upgrade and then neglect to tell their customers about it and make it freely available?

To quote from the same e-mail I gave you a quote from before:

Please note that this is not an official upgrade. The first official upgrade will be released in March.

Specifically, the reflash utility is a little "primitive" and not really ready for "prime time".I imagine they're concerned that to make it generally available would cause a lot of customer support issues in the actual reflash process, and the people could be left with "dead" machines.

Why do you keep making excuses for them?

I'm not making excuses; just correcting erroneous statements such as "they haven't fixed any bugs". I think personally that the Gen3 is an excellent product. I'm not alone in thinking that. I appreciate that you have a different view; that's fine with me. We can both put forward our viewpoints and let people make up their own mind whether the product would suit them or not.

I don't want to encourage people to buy a product like this, I wouldn't buy another Bookeen product. I think you're doing your fellow readers a disservice by continually defending and excusing this behavior and encouraging people to buy their product. I say spend your money on a better product and a better company.

What alternate product would you recommend people to buy? Having previously owned a Sony and an iLiad myself, I think personally that the Gen3 is better than either. Perhaps you'd care to comment on ways in which you feel these (or indeed, other) products to be better, so that people can make an informed decision? An open discussion of these issues is to everyone's benefit.

[cmbs]

By the way, I am giving away a free product. I had a customer concern and within a few minutes it's been checked, answered, and I updated my website to address the problem. That is customer service. Lots and lots of people do it for things much less expesive than a cybook.

[cmbs]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What alternate product would you recommend people to buy? Having previously owned a Sony and an iLiad myself, I think personally that the Gen3 is better than either. Perhaps you'd care to comment on ways in which you feel these (or indeed, other) products to be better, so that people can make an informed decision? An open discussion of these issues is to everyone's benefit.

I don't have money to buy all the products and compare. I don't know, maybe cybook is the best. Like I said, that would be a sad commentary on the state of ebook readers. I can say that I don't believe this product is worth the money they are charging for it. If I felt the company cared and were working diligently on it I'd be a bit more understanding - IF they followed through with some updates in a reasonable amount of time. But as of now, with zero response to any emails, with all these problems that I think should have been worked out before it went on sale, with something so ridiculous as an upgrade that isn't freely available, and their never ending problem of selling more than they can supply . . . it's very clear to me they are much more concerned with sales than quality or service. If there are no good readers available today then we should wait until there are rather than rewarding companies for this type of product and service.

I'd say if nothing else, to buy an older product that is not e-ink simply for the money saving. Or take a chance on a different product, this one isn't worth it unless this company gets serious about quality and customer service.

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by cmbs

I don't have money to buy all the products and compare. I don't know, maybe cybook is the best. Like I said, that would be a sad commentary on the state of ebook readers. I can say that I don't believe this product is worth the money they are charging for it. If I felt the company cared and were working diligently on it I'd be a bit more understanding - IF they followed through with some updates in a reasonable amount of time. But as of now, with zero response to any emails, with all these problems that I think should have been worked out before it went on sale, with something so ridiculous as an upgrade that isn't freely available, and their never ending problem of selling more than they can supply . . . it's very clear to me they are much more concerned with sales than quality or service. If there are no good readers available today then we should wait until there are rather than rewarding companies for this type of product and service.

I'd say if nothing else, to buy an older product that is not e-ink simply for the money saving. Or take a chance on a different product, this one isn't worth it unless this company gets serious about quality and customer service.

As I stated in an earlier reply, I do not share your experience. Almost from the very beginning I had the Collins Dictionary installed on my Cybook (with the older build)...my Cybook always found definitions and never hung up. Later I purchased the Chamber's dictionary and I haven't had any problems with that one either.

Bookeen has answered my emails, but by the discussions I've read here, everyone has not had that experience either. There are threads here that discuss that, and it sounds like some emails are being captured by Bookeen's spam filter. Since I've not had that particular problem, I really don't know.

In regards to this most recent build....it is not unusual for developers to create builds as they are developing a formal update. The developers don't usually release interim builds to the general public because they are not always fail proof, do not include much documentation, and because they are not as easily installed on a customer device as a more formal update. They generally release interim builds on a limited basis to customers who report issues with their devices. I don't really perceive this as "holding back" on their existing customers. When I learned about the build, I contacted them and Bookeen sent me a link where I could download it. I am encouraged to see a new build simply because it tells me that Bookeen is, in fact, working on improving the software.

I am happy to have the Cybook and I'm glad that they didn't hold off on selling it until every little thing was worked out. For the most part, I am a satisfied customer. But it sounds like you have not had a good experience with your Cybook and are disappointed with your experience. Since your experience has been so bad, why not sell your Cybook? It is in quite a lot of demand, and you'll probably be able to get your money out of it with no problem.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by cmbs

And maybe you should quit finding excuses for them.

Hate to step into this, but I don't think that is exactly what Harry has been doing.

And my Cybook works fine, though I would really like better library management features. Haven't had to use support, so I can't speak to that.

But I'd purchase it again in a minute.

[cmbs]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

As I stated in an earlier reply, I do not share your experience. Almost from the very beginning I had the Collins Dictionary installed on my Cybook (with the older build)...my Cybook always found definitions and never hung up. Later I purchased the Chamber's dictionary and I haven't had any problems with that one either.

Bookeen has answered my emails, but by the discussions I've read here, everyone has not had that experience either. There are threads here that discuss that, and it sounds like some emails are being captured by Bookeen's spam filter. Since I've not had that particular problem, I really don't know.

In regards to this most recent build....it is not unusual for developers to create builds as they are developing a formal update. The developers don't usually release interim builds to the general public because they are not always fail proof, do not include much documentation, and because they are not as easily installed on a customer device as a more formal update. They generally release interim builds on a limited basis to customers who report issues with their devices. I don't really perceive this as "holding back" on their existing customers. When I learned about the build, I contacted them and Bookeen sent me a link where I could download it. I am encouraged to see a new build simply because it tells me that Bookeen is, in fact, working on improving the software.

I am happy to have the Cybook and I'm glad that they didn't hold off on selling it until every little thing was worked out. For the most part, I am a satisfied customer. But it sounds like you have not had a good experience with your Cybook and are disappointed with your experience. Since your experience has been so bad, why not sell your Cybook? It is in quite a lot of demand, and you'll probably be able to get your money out of it with no problem.

Does your cybook always find every word? Because mine finds maybe half. I thought the words must not be in the dictionary, but checking on my desktop, the words ARE in there, the cybook doesn't find them. And yes it is fully charged. When it's not fully charged, it just gets wonkier and less reliable.

Regarding "all you have to do is write and request the update" - that is not a good excuse. Has it occurred to you people that not everyone in the world reads this forum? Why should you have to read a third party forum to find out about your product's updates? It is the responsibility of Bookeen to make it known and available for all their customers.

If emails are being "captured by their spam filter" that would be THEIR responsibility to correct that. It's not ok to allow that to go on and let customer emails go ignored.

Um, the documentation on the cybook is nothing to write home about. It could be better. If their problem with releasing an update is poor documentation, uh, write better documentation.

I don't understand this attitude of sympathy for poor bookeen selling more product than they can supply while ignoring customer's concerns and real problems with their product.

I am glad to have a portable way to read ebooks. If this reader cost $20 I'd say it was a good product for the price, could use some updates, but good. My problem is for this kind of money I expect a better product and better service. Most products I've bought, in my entire life, regardless of price, have been more market ready than this one. Most people I have purchased from, regardless of price, seem quite capable and willing to provide good customer service, I can't think of a single valid reason for Bookeen not to.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by cmbs

I don't understand this attitude of sympathy for poor bookeen selling more product than they can supply while ignoring customer's concerns and real problems with their product.

I don't think people are disagreeing that there is definitely room for improvement to their support -- especially in not notifying existing customers of a firmware upgrade that is being shipped with new units.

But I knew going in that I was dealing with a small operation, and am indeed willing to cut them a little more slack than I would Sony or Amazon.

If I were having issues with my Cybook and were being ignored by support, I would be less than pleased.

But since I'm not having them (my dictionary lookup works fine, for instance, though it isn't a function I use a lot), and it doesn't seem that poor support experience is universal, I have no personal reasons to complain about Bookeen.

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by cmbs

Does your cybook always find every word? Because mine finds maybe half. I thought the words must not be in the dictionary, but checking on my desktop, the words ARE in there, the cybook doesn't find them. And yes it is fully charged. When it's not fully charged, it just gets wonkier and less reliable.

Yes so far, the Cybook has found every word.

Originally Posted by cmbs

Regarding "all you have to do is write and request the update" - that is not a good excuse. Has it occurred to you people that not everyone in the world reads this forum? Why should you have to read a third party forum to find out about your product's updates? It is the responsibility of Bookeen to make it known and available for all their customers.

Didn't you read the rest of my reply? The build that you are referring to is not a formal update. I imagine once a formal update is released, Bookeen will notify its customers of its availabily and provide documentation that advises us as to the items that have been fixed and of any enhancements - that's generally how it works....

Originally Posted by cmbs

If emails are being "captured by their spam filter" that would be THEIR responsibility to correct that. It's not ok to allow that to go on and let customer emails go ignored.

Again, this has not been my issue, and so I can only point you to the thread where it has been discussed ad nauseum. I don't think a developer should have spam filters set up so that legitimate customer emails are being diverted there, but it has happened to me with other vendors and developers, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is not the case with Bookeen.

Originally Posted by cmbs

Um, the documentation on the cybook is nothing to write home about. It could be better. If their problem with releasing an update is poor documentation, uh, write better documentation.

This could be said for many developers and vendors. But I think you are being a bit petty.

Originally Posted by cmbs

I don't understand this attitude of sympathy for poor bookeen selling more product than they can supply while ignoring customer's concerns and real problems with their product.

I don't think I am being overly sympathic to Bookeen. They could most certainly provide better information to their customers...and some of their time estimates have slipped, but I don't understand why you are bashing them so harshly. The Cybook does for me, exactly what I want it to do. Everything else, like dictionary lookup, is gravy to me. Perhaps we just have a difference in perspectives...my perspective seems to be more "the glass is half full" and your perspective seems to be more "the glass is half empty."

[tompe]

Originally Posted by cmbs

Does your cybook always find every word? Because mine finds maybe half. I thought the words must not be in the dictionary, but checking on my desktop, the words ARE in there, the cybook doesn't find them. And yes it is fully charged. When it's not fully charged, it just gets wonkier and less reliable.

I have this problem with Concise Oxford but it is not half the words. It is some words near la that are not found. For example "last" is not found.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

In regards to this most recent build....it is not unusual for developers to create builds as they are developing a formal update. The developers don't usually release interim builds to the general public because they are not always fail proof, do not include much documentation, and because they are not as easily installed on a customer device as a more formal update. They generally release interim builds on a limited basis to customers who report issues with their devices. I don't really perceive this as "holding back" on their existing customers. When I learned about the build, I contacted them and Bookeen sent me a link where I could download it. I am encouraged to see a new build simply because it tells me that Bookeen is, in fact, working on improving the software.

But this build was released to the general public since it was installed on all new Cybooks. But people that had reported the bug and having the problem and contributed to the solution was not told that an update existed.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by tompe

But this build was released to the general public since it was installed on all new Cybooks. But people that had reported the bug and having the problem and contributed to the solution was not told that an update existed.

Yep, it is installed on my new Cybook, received last week.

They certainly could have handled communication about its availability in a better fashion.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm certainly not claiming that ALL the bugs have been fixed; just the ones that I'm aware of. The "biggie" for me was the fact that, with the original firmware, about 1 in 3 attempts to look up a word in my dictionary would result in the Gen3 either hanging up or rebooting. The fact that that's been fixed alone makes the v538 firmware a big deal for me personally.

You wrote: "Regardless of whether or not they TOLD you about it, they did, in fact, FIX the bugs which were reported (at least, they've fixed all the bugs that I'm aware of)."

You were claiming that they have fixed all bugs you are aware of. When you wrote that you were aware of the dictionary lookup bug and that it had not been fixed since it had been pointed out to you in another thread a couple of weeks ago.

[lmarie]

I love my Cybook, and have had only a couple of problems with it. Here's my take on this whole issue:

I had the money to spend on an expensive "toy". I don't usually (well, in fact, almost never) but I considered it a combined Xmas and bday present to myself. I've been interested in ebooks for a long time (before I was a teacher I was an academic librarian.) Years ago I wanted a Rocketbook, but couldn't justify spending the money, which all went to raising my kids. So for a long time I used a Palm. I'm happy to be part of the world that takes a risk and tries out a product that the masses may not want or be ready for yet. If I hadn't had the money to spare, or if I hadn't been truly interested, I might be more bothered by a few of the eink reader issues. But overall, I think the Cybook is a great product. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't get an irreversible crash, but even if I do, I figure I'm just part of the whole push toward better (and cheaper!) ebooks.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Lelah

BTW, sometimes I think Harry is really one of the Bookkeen founders....

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by tompe

But this build was released to the general public since it was installed on all new Cybooks. But people that had reported the bug and having the problem and contributed to the solution was not told that an update existed.

Once a build is fairly stable, it is not unusual for developers to sell newer products with newer builds on it. The formal upgrade will incorporate the newer build, and any additional fixes and enhancements to it.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Once a build is fairly stable, it is not unusual for developers to sell newer products with newer builds on it. The formal upgrade will incorporate the newer build, and any additional fixes and enhancements to it.

But is it really common not making them available? I have only looked for firmware for my Archos 604 and they made them available to all.

The real reason the are not telling people about the update is that the program to update the firmware is not finished.

But I find it annoying that I have bought a product that for example cannot read some files. Other people buying the same product does not have these problems. I think that legally I can demand to send the Cybook back and get a replacement since my Cybook is not working as it should. And if laws were logical (which they often are not) the company should legally be forced to tell customers about this option. In this case the option was to get a new firmware.

I really cannot find any excuse for not telling people that actually helped them solve the problem by providing good test cases about the update.