To speak or not to speak the local language when visiting other countries?

[mores]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

It's "thingie", right? I thought that was one of those universal words, like TV and puckee...

Actually, it's "truc", and it's pronounced with a "ü", like "über" ... which is one of the letters most english speakers have problems with. Just like the french can't vocalize the "h", and germans (and austrians) just completely replace any "th" with an "s" or a "z" and refuse to properly use "w" and "v" by softening any instance of "v", like "Win Diesel", "Darth Wader" or "Space Inwaders" ...

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Arggg! You just had to say it, didn't you?!?!?

Sometimes wisdom actually does come with age. I've finally learned to always give in to temptation!


Stitchawl

[GraceKrispy]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

The problem is.... I've spent the past 20 years abroad...


Stitchawl

OMG! that took me *way* too long to "get"

[Xiaopanda]

I'm an anglo saxon in singapore, a nd travel a heap.....especially in SE Asia.

I am an Australian by birth, and I think that the basics "hello, goodbye, how much? No thank you, Where are the toilets?" These you should know in any country you go to. I have no facility in language, and often there is an english speaker who can help, but my BEST advice? Just go for it! Be brave! Be bold! Try, butcher the language and be able to laugh at your bad BAD language and order heaps of beer...

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Xiaopanda

I'm an anglo saxon in singapore, a nd travel a heap.....especially in SE Asia.

I am an Australian by birth, and I think that the basics "hello, goodbye, how much? No thank you, Where are the toilets?" These you should know in any country you go to. I have no facility in language, and often there is an english speaker who can help, but my BEST advice? Just go for it! Be brave! Be bold! Try, butcher the language and be able to laugh at your bad BAD language and order heaps of beer...

S'pore is a great place to butcher languages! You get to do so in Bahassa Malay, Hindi, several dialects of Chinese, and a whole bunch of Filipino dialects too! (I guess you could use all of these just in Newton Circus alone!) Add on what we can do to our poor English language and we have the makings of a real comedy show. But somehow, business gets done, people move from place to place, shop in the stores, find directions, etc. And no one seems to mind when anyone makes a mistake with the languages. Not being able to fluently speak a language should never stop anyone from traveling. As you say, just a few 'polite' words will carry the day. The rest is just adventure!

Stitchawl

[Ceili]

I would love love Love to be able to converse in the language of a country I'm visiting, alas, I have absolutely No language skills
I do accents Quite well, pretty much any accent, once listened to (makes for interesting phone answering if I've been listening to someone's accented speaking for a bit) but the language gene skipped over me.

My dad seemed to be able to pick up languages quite easily (his time in Germany, China and India brought him home with languages and a dialect or two) He also spoke a wee bit of Irish, learned from his mom (mum).
I have an aunt that speaks 7 or so languages (in ADDITION to English, French, Spanish and Italian) And taught at the UN school for a while. I know, that's 11, but that's how she always explained it to me

I will always at the very least memorize the hello, thank you, please, goodbye, where are the bathrooms.
I love the idea of drawing a picture! That has to at least open the door to meeting new folks

I did try to learn Spanish during school, but coming from where I did, the only people I had to practice with were friends from the neighborhood.... so in class one day my Spanish teacher said to me "We speak Spanish in this classroom, Not Puerto Rican".
After that, I just zoned out in his classroom I could pass the reading parts of the class and test, I just couldn't speak the language *sigh*

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ceili

I would love love Love to be able to converse in the language of a country I'm visiting, alas, I have absolutely No language skills

Have you tried to learn a modern language recently? Modern teaching methods are completely different from those that used to be employed in schools, and are extremely effective. I really do not believe that there is anybody who genuinely "cannot" learn a foreign language if they really set their mind to it! You need a genuine motivation, though, and the opportunity to use it "for real". The only way to make language "stick" is to use it.

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Have you tried to learn a modern language recently? Modern teaching methods are completely different from those that used to be employed in schools, and are extremely effective. I really do not believe that there is anybody who genuinely "cannot" learn a foreign language if they really set their mind to it! You need a genuine motivation, though, and the opportunity to use it "for real". The only way to make language "stick" is to use it.

I, too, don't really believe that there are people who are incapable of learning a language. In fact, I worry that it's sometimes an excuse (yes, I plead guilty) for not trying hard enough. But could you please suggest a link to a description to the modern teaching methods you've mentioned, Harry? I'd like to find out how they differ from the way I "learned" Russian decades ago in college which was brutal and not very successful.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You need a genuine motivation, though, and the opportunity to use it "for real". The only way to make language "stick" is to use it.

And that's why I still can't speak French. I never go there. My German is generally horrible, except at the end of the holiday. It'll be barely passable then. My English, which I used for a full year while staying in the States, is practiced a lot. Foreign series are subtitled, I read 99.9% of my books in English, (the other .1% is Dutch), and I'm a software developer who uses microsoft products.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

May I ask a serious question (or is that forbidden in The Llounge)? A long time ago I gave up trying to speak the native language in the countries I visit. I butcher them (the languages, not the people) badly I'm sure. And it always felt like I was trying to fake being French, for example, when I'm obviously not. So I eventually decided that, out of respect, I should just speak English. And if we don't communicate, it's my fault and no one else's. So I now openly and sincerely express even "hello", "please", "thank you", and so forth in my own language everywhere. But I sense that some (maybe many) people would say that I'm being terribly disrespectful by what I'm doing. I'd love to hear an opinion. What would you suggest is the right thing for me to do?

OK, I haven't read anything but the above, so I'll give you my opinion based on my own experience, and tough if I repeat anything anyone has already said.

Of course you butcher the language in another country. It can't be helped. However, if you are the sort of person who likes people no matter where they are from, then you appreciate when they try to speak English, no matter how badly they may butcher it. At least they try.

There have been times traveling when I've been in eight different language zones in less than a week. And, that was back when English was much less the worldwide language of commerce than it is now.

This was also back before digital pocket translators and other handy dandy doodads.

So, I always recommend the following:

1. Write down (phonetically) and practice the following phrases in ever language you can research ....

Do you speak English?
I speak only a little <language applicable to situation>
Can you show me to the closest public toilet?
I am lost. Can you help me find <place you are trying to get to>
What is the word in your language for <point to thing>
I want <number of whatever it is you want and then point>
Yes
No
Please
Thank You

2. Do not worry or even think about your accent. It will suck. It doesn't matter.

3. Learn to count in ten .... just ten .... it will get you through most shopping trips.

It's not so much a matter of respect. It's more (again, my opinion) a matter of making friends in new places, and trying to speak their language (just trying) is a great way to make people smile.

I've found that (even back then), people who knew how to speak English put me out of my misery rather quickly .... but they did it in a spirit of friendship.

[Ceili]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Have you tried to learn a modern language recently? Modern teaching methods are completely different from those that used to be employed in schools, and are extremely effective. I really do not believe that there is anybody who genuinely "cannot" learn a foreign language if they really set their mind to it! You need a genuine motivation, though, and the opportunity to use it "for real". The only way to make language "stick" is to use it.

I haven't tried in years...while I haven't any plans to travel in the near future, I'd love to try to learn, even if just to claim that language gene that seems embedded in most of my family!

Do you have any specific suggestions towards the newer methodsd? I'd greatly appreciate it!

[Evin]

Originally Posted by Ceili

Do you have any specific suggestions towards the newer methodsd? I'd greatly appreciate it!

Just putting in my two cents . . . I recently discovered Michel Thomas' Language CDs (from the library) and was astonished how much you can learn so easily. The man was a genius. I've tried Pimsleur and others and found them incredibly tedious and I must have a bit of ADHD because in about 5 minutes I zone out completely and begin to seriously daydream!

Michel Thomas focuses on sentence structure and verbs in a way that actually makes sense - no notes, no rote learning. Best language program ever IMHO. I learned more usable German from one CD than an entire semester at university.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

I, too, don't really believe that there are people who are incapable of learning a language. In fact, I worry that it's sometimes an excuse (yes, I plead guilty) for not trying hard enough. But could you please suggest a link to a description to the modern teaching methods you've mentioned, Harry? I'd like to find out how they differ from the way I "learned" Russian decades ago in college which was brutal and not very successful.

I'm afraid I don't have any links to hand, but in the "old days", language teaching used to concentrate on grammar. These days, most good language classes teach by conversation and usage. The teacher will introduce a new grammatical construct by usage, and only after you've used it in speech, over and over again, will the teacher explain the grammar behind it, as a reinforcement to what you've learned. I certainly personally find it an enormously more effective method of learning.

[Stitchawl]

Personally, I feel that there are folks who have language skills and folks who don't. I'm one of the 'don'ts.' Just like various other skills, some people have natural ability for playing a musical instument and some have no talent at all. Some can do trig functions in their heads while others can't remember the multiplication tables.

As much as I try to learn languages, want to learn languages, and am in a position to use the languages I learn on a daily basis (heck, my wife doesn't even speak all that much English!) I'm still always stuck at the 'This is a dog. This is a brown dog.' stage. Doesn't do me much good when trying to discuss quantum physics or Maslow's theory of Self-Actualization.

Although I do better with the Romance languages than the Asiatic or Middle Eastern, I still can't make coherent sentences with most. I have to settle for just using a noun and a verb or adjective. I usually leave out most of the 'grammar' words. Fortunately, this works in most languages other than Japanese. (The fellow who invented Japanese grammar was NOT a very nice guy...) And it works. It's communication. The people we talk with understand that we are not a native speakers and give us a lot of latitude. We still communicate. Oddly enough, there is a direct relationship to the amount of alcohol consumed to the increased ability to understand each other!

The important thing is to make an effort. The local folks always appreciate it, except for that rare one or two nasties that you'll find even in your home countries. You've probably by now even seen a few of the younger folk with Chinese or Japanese characters tattooed on their arms or backs. Won't they be surprised to discover that when translated it reads; "Cantonese Beef with Black Bean Sauce?"

Stitchawl

[tompe]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

Thank you, Zee. My assumption was that people would be more offended by bad attempts to speak their language

Well, I would at least be irritated if somebody tried to ask something in extremely bad Swedish instead of speaking English. It is well know that all Swedes speak English so they are wasting my time trying to communicate in Swedish.

And to try to avoid to fool people that I know more of a language than I do I do not try to use the local language. Even in Japan I used this principle (agianst tourist book rekommendation) and did not notice and disadvantage.