The beginning of the end for DRM? - Page 3

ProfCrash · 05-21-2012, 12:00 PM

And I am not worried about Amazons DRM.

Amazon does not want to pay Adobe to put DRM on its books. Oh my god what a novel concept. A company does not want to pay another company for a service that it can provide itself.

ohhhhhh

All of the bookstores, to my knowledge, will sell books without DRM. The Author or the Publisher, who ever owns the rights, makes the decision to apply DRM or not. It really is simple.

TOR is going DRM free. That is a good thing. Hopefully the various ebook stores will sell both EPUB and Mobi of K8whatever and some competition will kick up.

HarryT · 05-21-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

Encryption of any kind on a product you purchase is not acceptable and should be removed as soon as you buy it.

Hmmm. Not sure I could agree with you there. I'm rather pleased that my credit cards use data encryption, for example.

CyGuy · 05-21-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Hmmm. Not sure I could agree with you there. I'm rather pleased that my credit cards use data encryption, for example.

I was referring to purchased products: ebooks, DVD, BluRay, HDMI (HDCP), etc.

stonetools · 05-21-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Hmmm. Not sure I could agree with you there. I'm rather pleased that my credit cards use data encryption, for example.

Obvously, Harry T, you are no true believer. You're letting facts and logic influence your thinking.

stonetools · 05-21-2012, 01:29 PM

Remember way back when I suggested that resolving the DRM debate could be done by establishing a "better DRM system." At that time, there was such vituperative opposition to the very idea of DRM that I gave up and said that the debate would have to evolve to where people could conntemplate positions beyond "DRM-ULTIMATE EVUUL".
Looks like the evolution has occurred.
In the end, the decision to move beyond current DRM is going to be based on data from experiments like Pottermore and Tor.com going DRM free. In a year or so, studies will show whether the losses due to casual sharing are acceptable to authors and publishers at Tor.com and to Pottermore. If they are , we will see less DRM or less restrictive DRM. If they aren't, we wont.
Idealogical prononcements about the morality of DRM will play no part-and should play no part-in what is a business decision by authors and publishers.

MovieBird · 05-21-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Hmmm. Not sure I could agree with you there. I'm rather pleased that my credit cards use data encryption, for example.

How do you purchase a credit card?

QuantumIguana · 05-21-2012, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

Obvously, Harry T, you are no true believer. You're letting facts and logic influence your thinking.

There is a world of difference between encryption that is used to restrict what I can do with content I paid for and encryption used to keep someone else from accessing my credit card data. You would find very few opposed to the latter.

[quote]Remember way back when I suggested that resolving the DRM debate could be done by establishing a "better DRM system." At that time, there was such vituperative opposition to the very idea of DRM that I gave up and said that the debate would have to evolve to where people could conntemplate positions beyond "DRM-ULTIMATE EVUUL".

In other words, people had an opinion on DRM that differed from yours.

stonetools · 05-21-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

In other words, people had an opinion on DRM that differed from yours.

Well, people went WAAAY beyond just having an opinion different than mine. I (and the moderators, I'm sure) would prefer that we just move on.

Joykins · 05-21-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Casual copying between friends will probably increase, but I can't see it being any more common than lending or selling print books.

Actually, I'm reading the requirement and there is a lending function: you send your friend the file and your password and they can read it on anything.

Quote:

Share with a Friend

Send file to User U2 (using any method)
User U2 loads file onto Device D3
Send Password P1 to User U2 (using any method – IM, email, text, etc.)
User U2 opens File F1 with P1 on D3 using Reading System

It also specifies that it doesn't lock out the first user during a loan.

http://idpf.org/epub-content-protection

If this were *standard DRM* I would totally love it.

But I would still remove it to retain control over my own ebook collection.

murraypaul · 05-21-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

It also specifies that it doesn't lock out the first user during a loan.

It isn't a loan then, is it? It is a copy.

Joykins · 05-21-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

It isn't a loan then, is it? It is a copy.

They call it "share with a friend". *shrug*

stonetools · 05-21-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

They call it "share with a friend". *shrug*

You can understand why authors and publishers might want limits on this, though,-especially if its "share with multiple friends".

I expect changes on specs like this.

Joykins · 05-21-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

You can understand why authors and publishers might want limits on this, though,-especially if its "share with multiple friends".

I expect changes on specs like this.

I expect the fact that you're sharing your personal password is intended to put a damper on widespread lending.

I would like to see a DRM requirement that enables the owner to format-shift.

JSWolf · 05-21-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

I expect the fact that you're sharing your personal password is intended to put a damper on widespread lending.

I would like to see a DRM requirement that enables the owner to format-shift.

That won't actually work all that well. In a lot of cases, after the format shift, there's some tidying up that may need to be done. So unless I can do that tidying up, forget it. Also, this lightweight DRM won't catch on because that would mean that ePub no longer works on the majority of apps/software/devices.

remasuri · 05-21-2012, 07:56 PM

I think the funny thing is that DRM just doesnt wortk. So far I can find any Bestseller as a pirate on the internet even though all of them probably had DRM in the first place. On the other hand at least the original Pottermore(with watermark) ebooks in German are not to be found yet because probably nobady knows where exactly there personal data is stored. When I searched it was easy to find the english Pottermore ebooks though piarated which I can only explain as for the reason that they are available at online libarys.
but anyways for me it seems like this watermark makes way more sense because people are actually afraid of uploading these books but also makes it easier for the people buying the books. all this apart from the fact that it takes me like 30 seconds to remove the DRM of a book which should proof the point that its pretty useless and just prevents my grandma to by an e-reader other than a kindel because everything else would just mean she would have to call me every time she wants a new book on her reader

05-21-2012, 01:29 PM	#35
stonetools Wizard Posts: 2,016 Karma: 2838487 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Ipad, IPhone	Remember way back when I suggested that resolving the DRM debate could be done by establishing a "better DRM system." At that time, there was such vituperative opposition to the very idea of DRM that I gave up and said that the debate would have to evolve to where people could conntemplate positions beyond "DRM-ULTIMATE EVUUL". Looks like the evolution has occurred. In the end, the decision to move beyond current DRM is going to be based on data from experiments like Pottermore and Tor.com going DRM free. In a year or so, studies will show whether the losses due to casual sharing are acceptable to authors and publishers at Tor.com and to Pottermore. If they are , we will see less DRM or less restrictive DRM. If they aren't, we wont. Idealogical prononcements about the morality of DRM will play no part-and should play no part-in what is a business decision by authors and publishers. Last edited by stonetools; 05-21-2012 at 02:26 PM.

05-21-2012, 07:56 PM	#45
remasuri Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2012 Device: Sony PRS-350	Pottermore I think the funny thing is that DRM just doesnt wortk. So far I can find any Bestseller as a pirate on the internet even though all of them probably had DRM in the first place. On the other hand at least the original Pottermore(with watermark) ebooks in German are not to be found yet because probably nobady knows where exactly there personal data is stored. When I searched it was easy to find the english Pottermore ebooks though piarated which I can only explain as for the reason that they are available at online libarys. but anyways for me it seems like this watermark makes way more sense because people are actually afraid of uploading these books but also makes it easier for the people buying the books. all this apart from the fact that it takes me like 30 seconds to remove the DRM of a book which should proof the point that its pretty useless and just prevents my grandma to by an e-reader other than a kindel because everything else would just mean she would have to call me every time she wants a new book on her reader

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05-21-2012, 12:00 PM	#31
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	And I am not worried about Amazons DRM. Amazon does not want to pay Adobe to put DRM on its books. Oh my god what a novel concept. A company does not want to pay another company for a service that it can provide itself. ohhhhhh All of the bookstores, to my knowledge, will sell books without DRM. The Author or the Publisher, who ever owns the rights, makes the decision to apply DRM or not. It really is simple. TOR is going DRM free. That is a good thing. Hopefully the various ebook stores will sell both EPUB and Mobi of K8whatever and some competition will kick up.

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