KDP Select - Page 3

anamardoll · 12-19-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

Just remember the mantra: Amazon is my friend and will do me no harm (I hope).

Well, I'm just REALLY concerned by the non-compete clause. It's one thing to say, "meh, I'll toss a novella up there for exposure", but it's another thing entirely to get slammed with a breach-of-contract because you had other stories up for sale somewhere else.

Especially when PRECISELY THAT THING has happened to at least one author this year. Not by Amazon, mind you, but if one publisher does it, another may.

VydorScope · 12-19-2011, 10:15 PM

Yeah, I would avoid this like the plague.. not even a novella... at least at this stage.

Nancy Fulda · 12-21-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I don't know how one opts out of the program or how it affects the stats of the book, but if it resets your numbers, reviews, or even Amazon-link, then that could be detrimental.

Ooh... I hadn't thought of that one.

Also, remember that Amazon has the right to terminate your membership in Kindle Select at any time, and even if they do, you are still obligated to maintain the full 90 days of exclusivity.

(Amazon also has the right to change the entire Terms of Service -- including exclusivity periods -- with no warning. If that happens, authors who do not agree to the new TOS will have to immediately exit KDP Select and will not be able to put their work elsewhere until the exclusivity period expires.)

A lot of people have argued that Amazon wouldn't do anything so ludicrous and non-profitable as to harass its kindle authors in this way. To a certain extent, I agree. As long as you're a new or midlist author, you're probably safe. Amazon doesn't care about little fish.

But what if you're hoping to be a big fish someday? Amazon lost Amanda Hocking because they had no leverage to hold to her Amazon exclusivity. Do you think they're going to let the next Amanda Hocking go that easily? If your books take off, and you want to sign a print distribution deal, is Amazon going to let you? Or are they going to start using their draconian contract to play hardball?

I know several well-sellling authors who've opted into KDP-select. They're smart businesspeople. They've made a strategic decision and a conscious decision to partner with Amazon despite the one-sidedness of the contract. That's not so different than what most authors do when they sign a contract with a traditional publishing company, and it's not necessarily a bad business decision. But it is a decision which should be made very, very carefully.

Nancy Fulda · 12-21-2011, 12:21 PM

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't expect to ever sell thousands of copies, it probably doesn't matter what you do.

But if you're reaching for the stars, you'd better decide whether you're willing to marry Amazon in order to get there.

anamardoll · 12-21-2011, 12:50 PM

And apparently the divorce laws are stacked against you in this case. That "change the TOS at any time" thing is ridiculous.

jrlewis · 12-26-2011, 01:58 PM

I'm not going to use the program. I don't see the benefit to me. I lose distribution by granting them exclusivity, and I lose profits by limiting myself to some tiny share of their reserve pie.

Nancy Fulda · 12-26-2011, 05:27 PM

Ah, but there are indeed advantages. For example, books in KDP Select are eligible for the Kindle Lending Library, and a 'borrow' counts as much as a sale when determining Amazon rankings.

This means that books in the KDP Select program can achieve and maintain a better ranking more easily. And since most of the currently-successful indie authors earn their money by hit and staying in one or more top-100 lists, anything that affects ranking is a big deal.

M T McGuire · 12-28-2011, 07:32 AM

Right well, for what it's worth. I think this has more benefit if you're in the UK and want to reach the US market. Also a lot of the competition for you lot is not open to UK residents or if it is, subject to withholding tax which complicates things horribly. That said, Amazon prime, here in the UK, is just a postage option, nothing more.

So on one hand, sites like B&N or Apple are only accessible for me though Smashwords. I'm certainly not going to pull out of Smashwords and I have a number of titles exclusively on there.

However, I have made all bar 3 of my actual sales through Amazon so exclusivity isn't exactly an issue for me. I'm in for 3 months with a 4000 word prequel to my novel.

The advantages, for me are:

1. People can download my short story for free and, hopefully, will want to read my novel (soon to be novelS woohah) as a result.
2. I will get some Americans reading my work - it's very British so they'll love or hate it but it's nice to actually get it offered to them in a slightly more high profile way.
3. My story will go into the Amazon algorithm and will be offered in "people who bought x also bought"

It has occurred to me that the algorigthm may not help as much as it could because my story will be downloaded with other free stuff rather than other genre specific items.

To this end, if anyone who writes humour, fantasy, sci-fi or YA fiction on KDP Select wants to join me in planning say, 2 days in every 3 month period when we'll all make our books free at the same time and all shout about it wherever we can, you are welcome.

It may take a lot of us but I think this might help to tip the algorithm towards other similar books as opposed to just random titles which are free. I say this because currently the algorithm for my stuff is really knackered, people who bought this also boought the works of L Ron Hubbard. Hmm...

Anyway it's just a thought...

I'm in for 3 months. We'll see how it goes.

Cheers

MTM

VydorScope · 12-28-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M T McGuire

I'm in for 3 months with a 4000 word prequel to my novel.

PROBLEM. They way the contract is written, they can sue you for selling the novel that the prequel is for at any time in the future. I do not think people realize how dangerous and broad they language of that agreement is.

anamardoll · 12-28-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

PROBLEM. They way the contract is written, they can sue you for selling the novel that the prequel is for at any time in the future. I do not think people realize how dangerous and broad they language of that agreement is.

This. The links that someone posted earlier breaking down the contract language were very clear and kind of scary.

If Amazon DOESN'T mean for the clause to be as broad as it is, why did they WRITE it this way? I cannot believe they don't have a cracker-jack legal team.

teh603 · 12-28-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

This. The links that someone posted earlier breaking down the contract language were very clear and kind of scary.

If Amazon DOESN'T mean for the clause to be as broad as it is, why did they WRITE it this way? I cannot believe they don't have a cracker-jack legal team.

Well, right now there's a Texas policy on "inappropriate relationships between teachers and students" that could get any teacher in the state fired. Its broad enough to drive a tank company across, and when asked about whether or not it was meant to be that way, the response was, "Yes, it is."

Broad patents, broad contracts, stupidly broad policies. They're all the same, whether they emerge from a mindless theocratic bureaucracy or a megacorp. They're bad for everyone except the person who writes them.

anamardoll · 12-28-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh603

Well, right now there's a Texas policy on "inappropriate relationships between teachers and students" that could get any teacher in the state fired. Its broad enough to drive a tank company across, and when asked about whether or not it was meant to be that way, the response was, "Yes, it is."

Broad patents, broad contracts, stupidly broad policies. They're all the same, whether they emerge from a mindless theocratic bureaucracy or a megacorp. They're bad for everyone except the person who writes them.

Speaking as a fellow Texan, I share your awe at our state's ability to muck things up in the most spectacular ways possible.

M T McGuire · 12-30-2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

PROBLEM. They way the contract is written, they can sue you for selling the novel that the prequel is for at any time in the future. I do not think people realize how dangerous and broad they language of that agreement is.

I can't speak for where you are but here, any contract you sign for internet services, stock broking, financial services, insurance etc all are full of similarly ridiculous clauses. At one point if my stock broker went down I was liable for as many costs as the receivers saw fit to take from me. When I signed I scratched that bit out although my lawyer said that such clauses are so ridiculous that no sensible court of law would uphold them and they are largely unenforcable.... ah but that would be my UK lawyer, of course. Hmm... now I have spotted a flaw.

Never mind. I've made £69 from my book in two years, I doubt Amazon will be coming after me just yet. Also, since the programme doesn't sit 100% comfortably with my ethics I'm only giving it a 3 month trial to see what happens because I make no sales anywhere else. If it doesn't work. I can and will opt out.

Finally, the few things I can see that might make a difference probably won't because they rely on fellow KDPS members joining me in a cluster and er hem... well... frankly no-one will.

Dinnae fret.

Cheers

MTM

If it makes a difference I'll have to put the odd book in every now and again.

greencat · 12-30-2011, 05:41 AM

I'm doing the 3 month trial with one of my books only. Frankly, it's the one which is only of interest to Amazon Kindle users. And being in the UK, a lot of other ebook stores are not open to me anyhow.

The way I see it - if your livelihood is dependent on one or two megacorps like Amazon, Google or eBay - be very afraid. You have fewer rights than an employee and they can (and quite likely will) change their terms and conditions on a whim overnight to your disadvantage. My view though is to make hay while the sun shines. We are in a golden age at the moment. As every man and his dog realises they can sell "books" - things will get a lot harder.

My guess is that things will change either way once the first lending checks arrive. If the numbers are good, lots of others will join select and drive down the value of a borrow - if they are bad, lots will leave.

sgraffwriter · 12-30-2011, 06:37 AM

I agree with the anti-kdp sentiment on many of the forums, but every author is different. I signed up with other platforms and found that the majority of my sales--what sales there were--came from Amazon. So I did sign one title up for KDP. So far, I've had hundreds of downloads and more sales this month than any previous month. On March 1, I can decide not to continue with it. I respect those opinions that differ from mine on this subject.

12-28-2011, 07:32 AM	#38
M T McGuire Addict Posts: 231 Karma: 1006970 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England Device: kindle	Right well, for what it's worth. I think this has more benefit if you're in the UK and want to reach the US market. Also a lot of the competition for you lot is not open to UK residents or if it is, subject to withholding tax which complicates things horribly. That said, Amazon prime, here in the UK, is just a postage option, nothing more. So on one hand, sites like B&N or Apple are only accessible for me though Smashwords. I'm certainly not going to pull out of Smashwords and I have a number of titles exclusively on there. However, I have made all bar 3 of my actual sales through Amazon so exclusivity isn't exactly an issue for me. I'm in for 3 months with a 4000 word prequel to my novel. The advantages, for me are: 1. People can download my short story for free and, hopefully, will want to read my novel (soon to be novelS woohah) as a result. 2. I will get some Americans reading my work - it's very British so they'll love or hate it but it's nice to actually get it offered to them in a slightly more high profile way. 3. My story will go into the Amazon algorithm and will be offered in "people who bought x also bought" It has occurred to me that the algorigthm may not help as much as it could because my story will be downloaded with other free stuff rather than other genre specific items. To this end, if anyone who writes humour, fantasy, sci-fi or YA fiction on KDP Select wants to join me in planning say, 2 days in every 3 month period when we'll all make our books free at the same time and all shout about it wherever we can, you are welcome. It may take a lot of us but I think this might help to tip the algorithm towards other similar books as opposed to just random titles which are free. I say this because currently the algorithm for my stuff is really knackered, people who bought this also boought the works of L Ron Hubbard. Hmm... Anyway it's just a thought... I'm in for 3 months. We'll see how it goes. Cheers MTM Last edited by M T McGuire; 12-28-2011 at 07:39 AM. Reason: spellos and the usual crud

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12-19-2011, 10:15 PM	#32
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Yeah, I would avoid this like the plague.. not even a novella... at least at this stage.

12-21-2011, 12:21 PM	#34
Nancy Fulda I write stories. Posts: 700 Karma: 16437432 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Germany Device: kindle	I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't expect to ever sell thousands of copies, it probably doesn't matter what you do. But if you're reaching for the stars, you'd better decide whether you're willing to marry Amazon in order to get there.

12-21-2011, 12:50 PM	#35
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	And apparently the divorce laws are stacked against you in this case. That "change the TOS at any time" thing is ridiculous.

12-26-2011, 01:58 PM	#36
jrlewis SF/F Author Posts: 160 Karma: 349656 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: Adobe Digital Editions	I'm not going to use the program. I don't see the benefit to me. I lose distribution by granting them exclusivity, and I lose profits by limiting myself to some tiny share of their reserve pie.

12-26-2011, 05:27 PM	#37
Nancy Fulda I write stories. Posts: 700 Karma: 16437432 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Germany Device: kindle	Ah, but there are indeed advantages. For example, books in KDP Select are eligible for the Kindle Lending Library, and a 'borrow' counts as much as a sale when determining Amazon rankings. This means that books in the KDP Select program can achieve and maintain a better ranking more easily. And since most of the currently-successful indie authors earn their money by hit and staying in one or more top-100 lists, anything that affects ranking is a big deal.

12-30-2011, 05:41 AM	#44
greencat Freebie finder Posts: 907 Karma: 2046472 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Sony, Kindle	I'm doing the 3 month trial with one of my books only. Frankly, it's the one which is only of interest to Amazon Kindle users. And being in the UK, a lot of other ebook stores are not open to me anyhow. The way I see it - if your livelihood is dependent on one or two megacorps like Amazon, Google or eBay - be very afraid. You have fewer rights than an employee and they can (and quite likely will) change their terms and conditions on a whim overnight to your disadvantage. My view though is to make hay while the sun shines. We are in a golden age at the moment. As every man and his dog realises they can sell "books" - things will get a lot harder. My guess is that things will change either way once the first lending checks arrive. If the numbers are good, lots of others will join select and drive down the value of a borrow - if they are bad, lots will leave.

12-30-2011, 06:37 AM	#45
sgraffwriter Stephen Graff Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Woodbury, NJ Device: Kindle for MAC	I agree with the anti-kdp sentiment on many of the forums, but every author is different. I signed up with other platforms and found that the majority of my sales--what sales there were--came from Amazon. So I did sign one title up for KDP. So far, I've had hundreds of downloads and more sales this month than any previous month. On March 1, I can decide not to continue with it. I respect those opinions that differ from mine on this subject.

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