Baen-Tor deal back on? - Page 2

Robert Marquard · 08-22-2007, 02:23 PM

Simply write to Toni Weisskopf or post a message in the TonisTable forum on Baens Bar.

bgalbrecht · 08-22-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Marquard

DRM was no problem in the Baen-Tor deal. All was set up and even started with a few books when a Holtzbrinck manager decided that no price less than 75% of the hardback price was acceptable.

I've not discussed it with any of the actual parties to the negotiation, but I believe that lack of DRM must have been one of the original reasons for the canceling of Baen-Tor project, or Patrick wouldn't have mentioned the new head of Holtzbrinck is against DRM at a panel at the convention. If it's true that Holtzbrinck is requiring ebook price to be at least 75% of the hardback price even after the paperback has been released, someone there is an idiot.

JSWolf · 08-22-2007, 10:14 PM

Nobody is going to pay $19-$15 for an ebook when it's $7.99 at the bookstore without any discounts. That's just silly if Holtzbrinck thinks that's the case. It's bad enough when the ebook is priced too close to the paperback edition as it is.

jasonkchapman · 08-23-2007, 07:28 AM

It raises an interesting question, though. It's the same one EMI is answering right now in the music biz. Given a choice, would you rather pay 75% of hb prices for DRM-free e-books or pb prices for DRMed e-books?

Liviu_5 · 08-23-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

It raises an interesting question, though. It's the same one EMI is answering right now in the music biz. Given a choice, would you rather pay 75% of hb prices for DRM-free e-books or pb prices for DRMed e-books?

The short answer is neither; for hb books, right now the market price is not the cover price but the Amazon price (with free shipping since the conditions for it are light); so 75% of hb prices is meaningless.
Personally I think that no-drm books at high prices is a suicidal recipe

Robert Marquard · 08-23-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

I've not discussed it with any of the actual parties to the negotiation, but I believe that lack of DRM must have been one of the original reasons for the canceling of Baen-Tor project, or Patrick wouldn't have mentioned the new head of Holtzbrinck is against DRM at a panel at the convention. If it's true that Holtzbrinck is requiring ebook price to be at least 75% of the hardback price even after the paperback has been released, someone there is an idiot.

In this case we have direct word from Jim Baen himself (shortly before he died).

nekokami · 08-23-2007, 08:20 PM

What are the execs at Holtzbrinck smoking??? I suppose 75% of the hardbound price might be ok when the book is only available in hardcover, but it's hardly going to fly once the book is available in paperback. And at that price, the "gift economy value" is still there. By this I mean that Baen books in general aren't worth much on the darknet in terms of geek value, because they aren't locked, you don't have to scan and OCR them, and they're reasonably priced, so you get no cred with the rest of the darknet if you try to give them away. But at US$18, someone willing to put down the money is going to be in for some amount of the nebulous value of the gift economy if they share.

(I'm not saying I encourage this behavior, or approve of it. I'm just predicting.)

Robert Marquard · 08-24-2007, 01:46 AM

It wasn't "the execs". It was a single exec. Publishers (especially big publishers) are a conservative lot.

cstross · 08-24-2007, 08:14 AM

Hi.

As one of the authors whose books was -- briefly -- available through Webscriptions, I have an interest at stake here. And it happens that I will be seeing Patrick next week, so I'll ask him what's going on (and what I can repeat in public).

(<em>I</em> want to see "The Clan Corporate" and "The Merchants War" on sale through Webscriptions too!)

HarryT · 08-24-2007, 08:24 AM

Welcome to MobileRead, Charles; it's always good to see authors here. Please do let us know (if you're able to) what the outcome of that discussion is.

Xenophon · 08-24-2007, 11:36 AM

In fact, if you're not allowed to tell us anything... at least tell us that much. As in: "I spoke with Patrick. I asked about the status of this deal. I can neither confirm nor deny anything farther." That way we'd know not to be waiting for further info.

cstross · 08-24-2007, 12:13 PM

I'll tell you whatever I can.

NB: my personal position is that DRM is deeply counterproductive for working authors and publishers, and the only beneficiaries are snake-oil salesmen in fly-by-night software companies (and the rent-seeking extortionists in certain trade bodies). However, I write for a living (it's my day job) and rule #1 of being a working novelist is, "don't piss off your editors" -- so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't force the issue.

NatCh · 08-24-2007, 01:38 PM

Glad to have you here, cstross, and we certainly don't want you to do anything that would greatly disrupt your life and livelihood! We are, however, always interested in, you should pardon the expression, novel perspectives on the industry. We have one author who's a frequent poster and his perspectives are always interesting, but he's not one who works with a publishing house, so your insight on that aspect would be particularly interesting, as well as your perspective as an author in general.

Glad you found us, and decided it was worth your while to speak up.

Xenophon · 08-24-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

I'll tell you whatever I can.

NB: my personal position is that DRM is deeply counterproductive for working authors and publishers, and the only beneficiaries are snake-oil salesmen in fly-by-night software companies (and the rent-seeking extortionists in certain trade bodies). However, I write for a living (it's my day job) and rule #1 of being a working novelist is, "don't piss off your editors" -- so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't force the issue.

Of course we'll forgive you if you don't force the issue. If you can't earn a living, we get far fewer yummy books to read! (Not that I'm self-centered or anything...

) The wording I suggested was designed to be usable even if you can't say anything else.

Here's hoping the whole thing comes back on again!

nekokami · 08-25-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstross

I'll tell you whatever I can.

NB: my personal position is that DRM is deeply counterproductive for working authors and publishers, and the only beneficiaries are snake-oil salesmen in fly-by-night software companies (and the rent-seeking extortionists in certain trade bodies). However, I write for a living (it's my day job) and rule #1 of being a working novelist is, "don't piss off your editors" -- so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't force the issue.

Many of us have read (and pointed others toward) some of your blog posts on the subject. Naturally, no one wants you to jeopardize what puts food on your table! But we're all really hoping to see more publishers go the Baen route, so we're more than a little interested in any tidbits we can get about this and similar deals.

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08-22-2007, 02:23 PM	#16
Robert Marquard Delphi-Guy Posts: 285 Karma: 1151 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: iLiad, Palm T3	Simply write to Toni Weisskopf or post a message in the TonisTable forum on Baens Bar.

08-22-2007, 10:14 PM	#18
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,594 Karma: 130140792 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Nobody is going to pay $19-$15 for an ebook when it's $7.99 at the bookstore without any discounts. That's just silly if Holtzbrinck thinks that's the case. It's bad enough when the ebook is priced too close to the paperback edition as it is.

08-23-2007, 07:28 AM	#19
jasonkchapman Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 2347 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC Device: Sony Reader, nook, Droid, nookColor, nookTablet	It raises an interesting question, though. It's the same one EMI is answering right now in the music biz. Given a choice, would you rather pay 75% of hb prices for DRM-free e-books or pb prices for DRMed e-books?

08-23-2007, 08:20 PM	#22
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	What are the execs at Holtzbrinck smoking??? I suppose 75% of the hardbound price might be ok when the book is only available in hardcover, but it's hardly going to fly once the book is available in paperback. And at that price, the "gift economy value" is still there. By this I mean that Baen books in general aren't worth much on the darknet in terms of geek value, because they aren't locked, you don't have to scan and OCR them, and they're reasonably priced, so you get no cred with the rest of the darknet if you try to give them away. But at US$18, someone willing to put down the money is going to be in for some amount of the nebulous value of the gift economy if they share. (I'm not saying I encourage this behavior, or approve of it. I'm just predicting.)

08-24-2007, 01:46 AM	#23
Robert Marquard Delphi-Guy Posts: 285 Karma: 1151 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: iLiad, Palm T3	It wasn't "the execs". It was a single exec. Publishers (especially big publishers) are a conservative lot.

08-24-2007, 08:14 AM	#24
cstross Cynic Posts: 86 Karma: 514 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Device: Lots, started with a Psion 3 circa 1998	Hi. As one of the authors whose books was -- briefly -- available through Webscriptions, I have an interest at stake here. And it happens that I will be seeing Patrick next week, so I'll ask him what's going on (and what I can repeat in public). (<em>I</em> want to see "The Clan Corporate" and "The Merchants War" on sale through Webscriptions too!)

08-24-2007, 08:24 AM	#25
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Welcome to MobileRead, Charles; it's always good to see authors here. Please do let us know (if you're able to) what the outcome of that discussion is.

08-24-2007, 11:36 AM	#26
Xenophon curmudgeon Posts: 1,487 Karma: 5748190 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500	In fact, if you're not allowed to tell us anything... at least tell us that much. As in: "I spoke with Patrick. I asked about the status of this deal. I can neither confirm nor deny anything farther." That way we'd know not to be waiting for further info.

08-24-2007, 12:13 PM	#27
cstross Cynic Posts: 86 Karma: 514 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Device: Lots, started with a Psion 3 circa 1998	I'll tell you whatever I can. NB: my personal position is that DRM is deeply counterproductive for working authors and publishers, and the only beneficiaries are snake-oil salesmen in fly-by-night software companies (and the rent-seeking extortionists in certain trade bodies). However, I write for a living (it's my day job) and rule #1 of being a working novelist is, "don't piss off your editors" -- so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't force the issue.

08-24-2007, 01:38 PM	#28
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Glad to have you here, cstross, and we certainly don't want you to do anything that would greatly disrupt your life and livelihood! We are, however, always interested in, you should pardon the expression, novel perspectives on the industry. We have one author who's a frequent poster and his perspectives are always interesting, but he's not one who works with a publishing house, so your insight on that aspect would be particularly interesting, as well as your perspective as an author in general. Glad you found us, and decided it was worth your while to speak up.

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