Google plans 'buy anywhere, read anywhere' offer

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by thechansen

Here's a solid question: Has ePub or Sony DRM been cracked yet?

ePub's been cracked for quite a while. Sony LRX hasn't.

[mores]

I like the cloud concept (who invented this "cloud" term anyhow. Apple likes to symbolize it with clouds), like IMAP emails that I can use on my desktop, laptop and mobile, and synching ebooks etc. seems intelligent to me, too. Like if my mobile was in repairs, I could continue reading on my laptop where I stopped on my mobile.

I just hope Google does not turn out to be big brother only to use all the info I gave it in calendar, mail, docs and analytics to haunt me,

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Frawan

First post... Had to register since people seem to be quite mistaken about this new Google-system. Where did you get the impression that simply because your library is saved online in a cloud, allowing you to access the books from multiple devices, you also have to be connected all the time?

Because that's how they've announced it will be, previously? You'll never, in their system, have more than a few pages of the book locally. Now, if they've changed, great....but I'll stick trusting with what google have themselves announced over a random website.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I would rather download my books and read them off-line.

the article does say:

"Once a book has been accessed on a given device, a cached version will exist, making it possible for readers to access the book offline."

So, that will allow you to read them offline.

BOb

[Hellmark]

Seeing as how LRX is being killed off, I doubt it will be cracked.

My issue with cloud computing, is that it is a pain to migrate from cloud to anything else, be it another cloud or just offline copy. Also, if you are without a net connection (like you may be when out and about), you're SOL.

[thechansen]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

ePub's been cracked for quite a while. Sony LRX hasn't.

Even still. It's the same concept as CDs. It takes about 5-10 minutes to rip a CD at a decent bit rate, and you don't have to worry about how many devices you place said music on. iTunes frustrates me with this, as I have more computers in my household than Apple allows authorization for, which means I am limited by Apple from streaming my legal purchased music on to my own personal computers. DRM is stripped from the music now but I still have quite a bit with DRM on it, and it would cost me $370 to purchase more "rights" to the music I already own. Yes I know this could have been avoided, and in reality isn't that big of deal, but it would be nice if we didn't have to worry about this with digital purchases.

There is NO effective method of preventing piracy, and I see this as Google attempting to control the flow of their ebooks on the internet. It is more of a pain in the butt to the consumer than effective copy protection. Why lose out on potential sales by using cumbersome means of trying to protect your content, which from the sound of Google's plan thus far seems to be the goal of the cloud.

[thechansen]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

the article does say:

"Once a book has been accessed on a given device, a cached version will exist, making it possible for readers to access the book offline."

So, that will allow you to read them offline.

BOb

How many eink ebook readers have the ability to read these cached versions offline?

[llreader]

Oh my. I was just going on about this last week. They have over 7 million books scanned. Not sure if they are all converted to text format, though.

EDIT: There seems to be some confusion about this. Go to books.google.com, and look for books in the Public Domain. You can usually download them in PDF or ePub format right now. I expect they are just goign to extend this to purchased books. And you have a "My Library", where you can access "your" books. I have a few by Voltaire, and I can read them online or download the files and read them on a device.

I don't see the problem with this, and I am eager to be able to buy some of the books that Google has that are not available in eBook format from anyone yet.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by thechansen

How many eink ebook readers have the ability to read these cached versions offline?

That is still up in the air. They said they are working with device makers. I guess my question is, what will be the DRM scheme. Because that is what any device must support.

I'm all for DRM free... but I doubt we will see that with ebook purchases for several years. (Yes, we have had this discussion ad nauseum.)

BOb

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by Frawan

First post... Had to register since people seem to be quite mistaken about this new Google-system. Where did you get the impression that simply because your library is saved online in a cloud, allowing you to access the books from multiple devices, you also have to be connected all the time?

Like one of the comments on the original news-site:


There is really no difference in terms of access to a library online between Amazon now and Google. The difference is that the google library appears to be open format, and open for various readers and mobile devices. I hope this will mean that I can simply download books to my PC, transfer it to my E-reader, or find a new book while in the bus, downloading it on my iphone, and later when I get home, find it for my e-reader, enabling me to read on multiple devices depending on my situation, and only having to look one place to get all the ebooks I have ever purchased.

It clearly states in the article: What is the fuss about. This is great! Finally some good competition to Amazon, enabling everyone to break the geographical restrictions and format restrictions.

With Amazon, when I buy a book it is downloaded to my ereader, and I always have access to it. In fact I can have thousands of books loaded and always at the ready when I decide to read one of them.

My understanding of Google's plan is that the books are NOT stored on your ereader but are accessed through their "cloud". The Google system will provide some type of caching system so that a book you are reading will also be available when you are not connected to the internet. However, the details on this caching mechanism are a bit sketchy. Is the entire book stored in cache? Is just a portion stored in cache, which would require a connection to the internet to load the next portion?

With a Kindle or Sony ereader, you can go on a flight from Rhode Island to California and have access to hundreds or even thousands of books. You can decide what to read as it strikes your fancy. Would this be possible if you had an ereader that used Google's service? My impression is that without an internet connection the answer is no.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Daithi

With Amazon, when I buy a book it is downloaded to my ereader, and I always have access to it. In fact I can have thousands of books loaded and always at the ready when I decide to read one of them.

My understanding of Google's plan is that the books are NOT stored on your ereader but are accessed through their "cloud". The Google system will provide some type of caching system so that a book you are reading will also be available when you are not connected to the internet. However, the details on this caching mechanism are a bit sketchy. Is the entire book stored in cache? Is just a portion stored in cache, which would require a connection to the internet to load the next portion?

With a Kindle or Sony ereader, you can go on a flight from Rhode Island to California and have access to hundreds or even thousands of books. You can decide what to read as it strikes your fancy. Would this be possible if you had an ereader that used Google's service? My impression is that without an internet connection the answer is no.

This has already been answered several times. The downloaded book is cached on your device so you can read it without an Internet connection.

Dale

[=X=]

Originally Posted by Frawan

First post... Had to register since people seem to be quite mistaken about this new Google-system. Where did you get the impression that simply because your library is saved online in a cloud, allowing you to access the books from multiple devices, you also have to be connected all the time?

Like one of the comments on the original news-site:


There is really no difference in terms of access to a library online between Amazon now and Google. The difference is that the google library appears to be open format, and open for various readers and mobile devices. I hope this will mean that I can simply download books to my PC, transfer it to my E-reader, or find a new book while in the bus, downloading it on my iphone, and later when I get home, find it for my e-reader, enabling me to read on multiple devices depending on my situation, and only having to look one place to get all the ebooks I have ever purchased.

It clearly states in the article: What is the fuss about. This is great! Finally some good competition to Amazon, enabling everyone to break the geographical restrictions and format restrictions.

Actually the business model from Amazon and Google are quite different. You can tell by the terminology used in the article.

The term "cached locally" implies that an encoded format is stored on the local device that can only be access by the reading application.

If it was like Amazon they would have used the term "download" or "stored".
From my reading Google model is more akin to Shortcovers than Amazon. Shortcover also caches books locally one chapter at a time.

Second there is no way you can claim the format is "open". They have not specified how one is going to access the books. Just because they claim many devices can read their books does not make their format open. Heck Amazon had expressed the same desires and we know that MOBI/AMZ is not an open format.

The problem is your reading the article with a "wishful" bent, and I would wish you where correct, but that is not what is being said. If you understand Google's business model and the wording they've chosen it is clear their model is no where near your claim.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Amazon uses a lot of those $9.99 books as loss leaders (in other words they take a loss on them).

I've always had a hard time believing this claim for a number of reasons. 1) It's illegal to sell merchandise below cost, esp if your a market leader. There would have been a law suit by now.
2) Publishers are really upset about the price point and claim they are losing profit to eBooks. If Amazon was paying publishers full price then they would not care. I think Amazon is getting a discount and they are not publishing the discount.

[thechansen]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

That is still up in the air. They said they are working with device makers. I guess my question is, what will be the DRM scheme. Because that is what any device must support.

I'm all for DRM free... but I doubt we will see that with ebook purchases for several years. (Yes, we have had this discussion ad nauseum.)

BOb

The DRM I am not overly concerned with, it's the actual caching and having it as a web only service. Most eink devices are sold as such, instead of being loss leaders like game consoles for accessories, licensing, and actual media sold. They are trying to push these devices and services without it being actually feasible or enticing from the consumer end. As it stands without the device support and being tied to an internet connected pc or smartphone, this isn't going to be the catalyst to drive the ebook market.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

This has already been answered several times. The downloaded book is cached on your device so you can read it without an Internet connection.

Dale

Right, and I see no reason why you couldn't have multiple ebooks cached locally.

Heck, the reader may not even have internet access so you need to load it from "the cloud" to your PC then to your reader. Actually, this is pretty similar to what happens now... your ebooks are available on "the cloud" (say fictionwise). When you want to read it you cache it (d/l to your PC) locally. If you want it on your reader you transfer it from the PC's cache to your reader.

The only main difference here I think would be that Google is going to give you a "reader" that you can load anywhere. Think web app similar to having Google Mail with Google Gears (off line mode) enabled.

BOb

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by =X=

1) It's illegal to sell merchandise below cost, esp if you're a market leader. There would have been a law suit by now.

No, it isn't, at least not in the US, except for farm products where the price is mandated by law (such as milk), also known as farm price supports.

If you want to buy something and sell it for less than you paid for it, no one will sue you except the American Dairy Assocation.