Seriously strange pronounciations (?)

[JicMic]

Interesting Article on how J.R.R. Tolkien created the word Hobbit (well how he was thought to). Deals a lot with pronounciation of words in different languages and how they change. Good read, and very interesting.

[AprilHare]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In an American audiobook I'm currently listening to, I've come across two VERY odd (odd to me, at least) pronounciations:

1. The word "buoy" - ie a floating marker at sea - which the reader pronounced "boo-ee". In British English the word is pronounced the same as the word "boy".

2. The word "quay", which the reader pronounced "kway". Again, in British English it's pronounced "key".

Are these really the "normal" American English ways of saying these words? I've never come across this before.

Pronounce Woolloomooloo for 50 points

[Wetdogeared]

Originally Posted by AprilHare

Pronounce Woolloomooloo for 50 points

Woola-malloo

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

The other Southernism that's used a lot is Cuz for Cousin.

That one's not really an "Americanism". Shakespeare used "Coz" for cousin.

[JicMic]

Ahha.. Forgot to the post link to the interesting article. Here it is: http://www.stanmcdaniel.com/hobbit/hobbit.htm If your a Tolkien Fan like me you may find it interesting. About the pronounciation of hobbit, deals a lot with consonant shifts in the word based on sound through time. The author coined a word Eidophonetics to describe it.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by AprilHare

Pronounce Woolloomooloo for 50 points

wool ah mool ah ???

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That one's not really an "Americanism". Shakespeare used "Coz" for cousin.

I realize that Shakespeare used it .... as far as I know, it's not used all that much in modern England. Also, in America (specifically, the South), it's Cuz, not Coz.

Unless you are suggesting that the American slaves picked up the usage from their extensive studies of Shakespeare. I think it's a bit unlikely, but I suppose anything is possible. I just haven't heard of many slaves attending Shakespearian productions or actually being allowed to learn to read. So, my thought is that it's an Americanism because it arose independently, in America, without relation to the works of Shakespeare.

I'm sure you'll let me know if the English use the word in common language today, or if the word "cousin" is more often used. In the Deep South, "Cuz" is much more common, unless you are speaking formally, and most certainly came into common usage here in the States as a result of the slave culture.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by BenG

Wikipedia has an article on Br'er Rabbit:


Disney probably had a big influence on how people today pronounce it.

Well, that article kills my theory. Damn. So, "Buh" (which is probably where Bubba came from) was the original pronunciation. Interesting. Yes, I'm sure that Disney had a lot of influence about the word. Although, James Basket pretty much made up the character of Uncle Remus as he went along. The general belief is that he required virtually no direction, and told the stories as they had been told to him. So, I would guess that he must have been from a part of the South (if he was from the South at all), where they do pronounce the second "r".

And .... a little research indicates that he was born in Indianapolis, Indiana .... so there's the beginning of the modern pronunciation of Br'er. The actor wasn't raised in the South. It's funny .... I went to the plantation (in Louisiana) where all the Uncle Remus stories supposedly began. I believe the place was called "Laura Plantation" ... and, of course, they all now say "Brair."

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by AprilHare

Pronounce Woolloomooloo for 50 points

If I recall my Monty Python correctly .... it was Wall-a-ma-loo.

Refer to the "Bruces" sketch .... although I have no idea if they were pronouncing it correctly. Aust'ralia, Aust'ralia, we love you!! No pooftas!!

[yvanleterrible]

Yesterday I heard an other pronunciation for buoy. Bwoy.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

If I recall my Monty Python correctly .... it was Wall-a-ma-loo.

Refer to the "Bruces" sketch .... although I have no idea if they were pronouncing it correctly. Aust'ralia, Aust'ralia, we love you!! No pooftas!!

Technically it's pronounced the way it's spelt with the following emphasis: WOOL-loo-moo-LOO (with the first two 'oo' sounds matching that of "wool" and the second as in "moon"). In practice, the middle two syllables are the ones that approach the typically Strine, short, vowel-stripping "a" sound, if the vowels have any sound at all, with the first of the middle two most often having the actually pronounced mispronunciation.

These are English representations of the indigenous words, however, so "correct" pronunciation may be different. For instance, I live in Noosa, based on the indigenous name, Gnuthera. It's hard to say from that quite where correct pronunciation lies. In practice though, it's, with near equal emphasis, NOO-SAH ("noo" as in "moon").

Cheers,
Marc

Cheers,
Marc

[Godzil]

Originally Posted by HarryT

1. The word "buoy" - ie a floating marker at sea - which the reader pronounced "boo-ee". In British English the word is pronounced the same as the word "boy".

2. The word "quay", which the reader pronounced "kway". Again, in British English it's pronounced "key".

Interstingly the pronunciation seem to be close to the French word for these two ie (buoy == boué with pronounce boo-ay and quay == quai that pronounce kay (but not key that is more like ki)

By the way the "official google pronunciation" is "key" : http://www.google.fr/dictionary?sour...langpair=fr|en

and "boy" : http://www.google.fr/dictionary?lang...uée&hl=fr&aq=f




PS: if you want to try to ear the french pronunciation go here :

http://www.acapela-group.fr/text-to-...tive-demo.html

in the field "Tapez votre texte ici :" put "bouée" or "quai" and click on the "OK!" buttun to ear it ^^

edit:

I search in the Oxford dictionary for word origins :

Quay is from old french kay ( http://www.askoxford.com:80/concise_oed/quay?view=uk ) which is an old form of the actual "quai" word

And it seems that the french "bouée" come from the same word in dutch : "boeye" cf buoy - AskOxford - bouée - CNRTL

I really found etymology a fun and exciting subject ^^

(and sorry if all I said was already sayed, the topic is really too long)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I realize that Shakespeare used it .... as far as I know, it's not used all that much in modern England. Also, in America (specifically, the South), it's Cuz, not Coz.

Unless you are suggesting that the American slaves picked up the usage from their extensive studies of Shakespeare. I think it's a bit unlikely, but I suppose anything is possible. I just haven't heard of many slaves attending Shakespearian productions or actually being allowed to learn to read. So, my thought is that it's an Americanism because it arose independently, in America, without relation to the works of Shakespeare.

I don't mean that Shakespeare invented the word, but rather that it was a word that was in common usage in Shakespeare's time. There are a lot of words which have fallen out of usage in modern British English, but have stayed "current" in American English. It crossed my mind that this could perhaps be such a word.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't mean that Shakespeare invented the word, but rather that it was a word that was in common usage in Shakespeare's time. There are a lot of words which have fallen out of usage in modern British English, but have stayed "current" in American English. It crossed my mind that this could perhaps be such a word.

As I said, it could be. But under the circumstances, especially the restrictions on literacy among the slaves of the American South prior to the Civil War (and I am sad to say, after the Civil War as well), I do think that it is a matter of independent invention (so to speak).

Of course, it's a pretty obvious abbreviated form of the word, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up independently from time to time in any English speaking culture. An amazing amount of slave vernacular and sayings have made its way into American English and is still used today (although most people don't realize the source).

The phonetic spelling of "cousin" (often used by those who wrote about the slaves, such as in the Uncle Remus stories), is either "cuzzin" or sometimes "cuzzen" .... and that's where "Cuz" came from.

[krisk]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

Okay, you got me, slayda. My head is hurting.

“Uv all de creeturs”, said Uncle Remus, in response to a questioning took on the part of the little boy, “ol Brer B’ar had de biggest an’ de warmest house. I dunner why ner wharfo’, but I’m a-tellin’ you de plain fack, des ez dey to!’ it unter me. Ef I kin he’p it I never will be deceivin’ you, ner lead you inter no bad habits. Yo’ pappy trotted wid me a mighty long time, an’ ef you’ll ax him he’ll tell you dat de one thing I never did do wuz ter deceive him whiles he had his eyes open; not ef I knows myse’f. Well, ol’ Brer B’ar had de big house I’m a-tellin’ you about. Ef he y’ever is brag un it, it aint never come down ter me. Yit dat’s des what he had—a big house an’ plenty er room fer him an’ his fambly; an’ he aint had mo’ dan he need, kaze all er his fambly wuz fat an’ had what folks calls heft—de nachal plunkness.

this is how my VERY large VERY dark VERY first Drill Sgt in Basic sounded. I couldn't understand a WORD he spat at me, when he bellowed something along the lines of; "WHASSA MATTA PR'AT DUNCHUNNERSTAN EGLIS!!!!????" and I shakily managed "I'm sorry Drill Sgt., I only speak English... *whimper*" that was good for MANY push-ups!!!!