04-26-2010, 01:41 PM | #166 |
creator of calibre
Posts: 44,006
Karma: 22669822
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
|
I don't see how you could shield an antenna against passenger generated signals but still have it receptive to GPS signals, other than by putting a lot of distance between the antenna and the passenger cabin.
Wiring should definitely be shielded, but I'd have assumed it is already. |
04-26-2010, 02:41 PM | #167 |
frumious Bandersnatch
Posts: 7,516
Karma: 19000001
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
|
But some phones have GPS receivers, so just being close does not seem a real problem.
|
Advert | |
|
04-26-2010, 02:47 PM | #168 |
creator of calibre
Posts: 44,006
Karma: 22669822
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
|
|
04-26-2010, 02:51 PM | #169 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,185
Karma: 25133758
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)
|
EL AL Flight Mid December 2005 Landing in Tel Aviv:
As the EL AL plane touched down at Ben Gurion Airport the voice of the captain came on: “Please remain seated with your seat belts fastened until the plane has come to a complete stop and the seat belt signs have been turned off. We also wish to remind you that using cell phones is strictly prohibited.” Pause He continues: “To those of you who are seated we wish you a Merry Christmas and hope you enjoy your stay…and to those of you standing the aisles and talking on your cell phones we wish you a Happy Hanukah and welcome home.” |
04-26-2010, 03:37 PM | #170 | |
Zealot
Posts: 100
Karma: 1018
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: enTourage eDGe
|
Quote:
Also, the most a car or cell phone is good for is as a navigational aid, not as vehicle control, get a glitch, lost signal, etc, no big deal. Now, wrt trying to harden a plane to consumer devices, it is almost an impossible task. You would have to get every conceivable device, and test those in all combinations with all combinations of planes to prove there can't be a problem (probably add in the mix every possible location in the plane for each device on each plane). Everytime a product is introduced or update, or a new plane is introduced, or something is changed on a plane, you would need to re-do these. Worst scenario is a new consumer device introduced or a device changed, since all combinations would need to be tried. All devices would need to be tested until the last one fell out of use. That would be the only way to prove your device can't cause problems. The other issue, planes should be designed for this type of thing. I agree, they should be, but currently they aren't, and the fleet is very unlikely to undergo an immediate upgrade to fully shielded vehicles. Devices should also be designed to emit only those radiations meant to be emitted (ie on an e-reader, light and the specific radio waves when 3G or WiFi is on), but they won't, manufacturers will do the least required by law to save money. I have seen a lot of things on circuit boards that become antenna to a number of different frequencies (do you know how many different frequencies your e-reader is emitting), and to control those to the point of no chance of a problem is a daunting task, and an expensive one, are you willing to pay 25% or more the cost of a device so you might be able to use it during take off and landings of an airplane? Is everyone willing to bear that cost? --Carl |
|
Advert | |
|
04-26-2010, 05:09 PM | #171 | |
Illiterate
Posts: 10,279
Karma: 37848716
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Sandwich Isles
Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro
|
Quote:
|
|
04-26-2010, 05:18 PM | #172 |
Illiterate
Posts: 10,279
Karma: 37848716
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Sandwich Isles
Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro
|
Like when the plane is in the approach pattern and everyone is calling their spouse for a ride home?
|
04-26-2010, 06:45 PM | #173 |
creator of calibre
Posts: 44,006
Karma: 22669822
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
|
@pricew: Actually, you don't have to shield planes from all devices or even test each plane with every device. What you need is to establish a set of standards about the electromagnetic radiation permissible from electronic devices. In the US, the FCC already does this. The problem is that the FCC standards are incompatible with similar (though more rigorous) standards setup by the FAA.
Basically, what's really needed is for the FCC and FAA to co-operate. And you really don't need to worry about random circuit boards becoming antennae. It's very simple to shield circuitry from EM radiation. Just put it behind metal. The problem is antennae, which cannot be put behind metal for the obvious reason that they need to receive EM radiation to work. And if I understand the problem, as described in the reports with the GPS systems correctly, the problem isn't that a cell phone signal can cause a momentary loss in GPS tracking. This would be harmless, since software can easily compensate for it. The problem is that the cell phone signals have been shown to actually cause the GPS system to lose satellite lock, which then takes a significant amount of time to re-establish. I've never seen that happen with car/hand held GPS systems. And finally, you don't need to upgrade the whole fleet all at once. You need to upgrade it a few planes at a time and remove the restrictions only on the upgraded planes. @HarryT: Actually if you read the reports TimS linked to, even a single cell phone can cause problems. Undoubtedly more phones will make it more likely that a problem occurs. |
04-26-2010, 11:53 PM | #174 | |
Banned
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
|
Quote:
And once more, the problem of cell phones can be solved by an onboard cell which simply blocks calls during critical flight phases. |
|
04-27-2010, 02:10 AM | #175 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 9,707
Karma: 32763414
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Krewerd
Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
|
|
04-27-2010, 04:23 AM | #176 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,952
Karma: 213930
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Middelfart, Denmark
Device: Kindle paper white
|
Last time I went to Denmark, I had no idea, how to turn my mobile off... I'd only just got it.
I'm wondering, if the switch on/off could interfer, but the permanent off/on would be OK?? Anyway.. I always turn off my phone.. ipod.. kindle, when I'm asked. |
04-27-2010, 05:04 AM | #177 | ||
Somewhat clueless
Posts: 739
Karma: 7747724
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPhone 6 Plus
|
Quote:
Quote:
/JB |
||
04-27-2010, 05:06 AM | #178 | |
Somewhat clueless
Posts: 739
Karma: 7747724
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPhone 6 Plus
|
Quote:
/JB |
|
04-27-2010, 08:25 AM | #179 |
Banned
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
|
No, but you realise that it takes the levels below that which you get from simply flying over a city on approach or takeoff, which is far from uncommon. I'm not kidding about testing aircraft on a regular basis or how infrequently shielding is checked or replaced currently.
|
04-27-2010, 08:37 AM | #180 | |
Somewhat clueless
Posts: 739
Karma: 7747724
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, iPhone 6 Plus
|
Quote:
My cellphone, even when not on a call, frequently causes audible interference with nearby thinks that have speakers, such as my PC or my desk phone. The cellphones in the rest of the city don't seem to have as significant effect. /JB |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
BBC News - "Traditional books 'may not survive electronic age'" | seagull | News | 13 | 07-18-2010 05:12 PM |
New "E-Book Devices" "Bookeen Opus" forum desired | ericch | Bookeen | 3 | 08-06-2009 06:31 PM |
Using Chrome and "Switch Editor Mode" button | Wetdogeared | Feedback | 0 | 06-01-2009 01:05 PM |
"Liquid" / "Fixed" - how to switch layouts | Alexander Turcic | Announcements | 0 | 06-05-2007 09:29 AM |
Sony Connect "Bait and Switch" Advertising? | TheMooch | Sony Reader | 5 | 02-21-2007 01:43 AM |