05-18-2010, 08:51 PM | #76 |
Wizard
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Go back to the original post I was responding to and read that authors and corporations were called greedy for wanting to charge something. So, did he insult corporations? And I replied (and I stand by that statement) that it is just as greedy to want the item in question for free or just to want to "name your price". As with any product, the owners have the right to set any price and the consumer has the right not to buy it.
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05-18-2010, 10:33 PM | #77 |
Wizard
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Now you are reading things into my statement that are just not there. We all want to get a better deal. The right way is to refuse to buy -- or wait for discounts, coupons, whatever. Not downloading from the darknet.
Last edited by HansTWN; 05-18-2010 at 10:36 PM. |
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05-18-2010, 10:52 PM | #78 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
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At the same time, it does not give justification for illegally downloading and disseminating files because you don't like the copyright law. The best form of protest, in this case, would be to leave the content alone compltely... show them that their content is not worth it to you or anyone else. Stealing it sends the wrong message (it doesn't condemn them... it condemns the thief). |
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05-18-2010, 11:18 PM | #79 |
Paladin of Eris
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Steve Jordan I accept your apology misunderstandings happen.
As I posted earlier that's a point where most people and I may not agree, I have in the past broken laws for the sake of breaking an unjust law. Also use the word infringement instead of stealing I refuse to accept you or anyone else trying to re-frame the argument like that. It is unfair and I can find inflammatory words to describe the people I have a problem with if necessary. |
05-18-2010, 11:25 PM | #80 |
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Not much to add to Steve's post. Obvious problems with pricing, regional restrictions, DRM, and the length of copyright are no excuse for illegal copying. We can protest against those in a forum like MR, we can send e-mails to the parties responsible, we can refuse to buy.
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05-19-2010, 01:33 AM | #81 | |
The Forgotten
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But I don't think anyone, as an individual, has the right to pick and choose which laws they will or will not follow. Down that road leads chaos and anarchy. Who determines what is or is not 'worthy' of being followed? Individuals? Where will that stop, then? You decide preventing distribution of ebooks is 'unjust' (whatever your definition of unjust might be), so you're going to break it. Then your neighbour decides preventing him from getting music off Pirate Bay is unjust, so he does that. Then someone decides that stopping him from speeding is unjust, so he drives down the road near a school at 200mph. Pretty soon, I'll decide that preventing me from killing that bloke that annoys me is unjust, so I should be allowed to commit murder. That's fair, is it?? That's logical? If you don't like the laws in Country X, then go live in Country Y. If you don't like the prices of music CDs or ebooks, then don't buy them. Learn to live without them. You have options, you have rights; but the one 'right' you do not have, is to conveniently break laws as you see fit. |
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05-19-2010, 02:48 AM | #82 | |
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05-19-2010, 02:51 AM | #83 |
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How can you even consider that reasonable? People can't just move to a different country as if they're moving across the street. I absolutely choose which laws I will follow and so do you. Have you never jaywalked? Exceeded the speed limit? But that's not what I'm talking about, illegal does not mean immoral and breaking laws as a form of protest has a long history. If people are pissed off about copyright laws and drm and unskippable ads and decide to download then good, someone somewhere deserving may get screwed out of a little money, it happens. From hippies chaining themselves to trees to protect spotted owls to Rosa Parks not moving to the back of the bus. Ghandi, Martin Luther King, anyone who's ever been arrested for sodomy or adultery, Tibetan monks who set themselves on fire. Whatever it is big or small people break the law for what they believe. Yes some of them are nutjobs by my standards but even then they see what they think is injustice and stand up and say no. If you want to obey every law then I hope you never come across one that is not just inconvenient, not just a little unfair but plain offensive. Slavery is gone now at least in law, racial segregation took a lot of law breaking, sodomy laws were only overturned in 2003 in the US. In Saudi Arabia women can't drive would you tell them to just move to country Y? What I'm trying to say is laws like the DMCA may not rise to that level with you, you might even approve of them but other people might feel different and if it matters that much to them then yes, break the law, strip drm, download if you don't know how, stick it to the man, if life+70 copyrights offend you download stuff that goes PD in life+50 countries or whatever. |
05-19-2010, 02:58 AM | #84 | |
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Speaking of drm, i had a little "scare" moment when buying e-books from sony store yesterday. After buying book, i realized the sony reader might not use the same key, and I would be unable to de-drm. Worse I might be unable to get the sony software to authenticate my non-sony reader, meaning i would be unable to read the paid for book at all.
I've never been so happy to see inept's "file successfully decrypted". And went on to the usual margin / css fixing. (that's one reason I de-drm my books, in addition to making my life easier. Fixing the publisher's mess.) Quote:
Though I will not take the right to distribute the books after striping off the DRM. Last edited by EowynCarter; 05-19-2010 at 03:01 AM. |
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05-19-2010, 05:24 AM | #85 | ||||||
The Forgotten
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And who decides what these so called 'just' causes are? You? Me? The guy next door? Everyone has their own rules which irk them. If we were all to go out and start breaking rules of our selfish choosing then that would, as I said before, just lead to chaos. Fighting oppression is one thing. Anarchy is another, entirely. Quote:
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I absolutely agree that DRM (at least in its current form) should be eradicated. I would, however, support publishers if they were ever able to come up with a method to respect the consumers' rights while reducing piracy. (And no, I have no idea how. I'll leave that to people smarter than myself.) But I absolutely disagree with the methods that you seem to support. Quote:
Secondly, I really don't understand your objection to the copyright thing. (I thought it was life+25?). If you were an entrepeneur who started a private business, wouldn't you feel that your kids should be able to enjoy the fruits of your labour after you were dead? Or do you think it's okay for someone to come along the day after and say, "Sorry, this is now public property." Personally, I don't have a strong opinion on the Life+X issue either way. I'm just trying to understand why you find it so offensive..? Quote:
But uploading it on the darknet so millions of people can get it for free, and deny the author his right to earn a living? Sorry, but that's not something I will ever, ever agree with. Last edited by afa; 05-19-2010 at 05:28 AM. |
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05-19-2010, 06:25 AM | #86 | ||
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Second You are not qualified to speak to my motivation, you don't know it you don't know me all you know is I made one statement in a long thread that pissed you off, that I'll happily break bad laws for the sake of breaking bad laws. Be it stripping DRM or freeing slaves what's it to you, I'm the one taking the risk to fight the good fight. What are you doing other than picking on me? And what methods against DRM have you decided I support because I don't recall ever getting very specific about it so why don't I. There's no excuse for anything that prevents me from making backups if and when or as often as I see fit the media I put something on can degrade just as the original can. There's no excuse for preventing me from format shifting or editing or playing it backwards or baking it into a pie when I pay for it its mine. Copyright, in the US its life+70, there is no need to register or pay any fees copyright is automatic. DMCA protection is automatic, the ability to take infringement cases to court is automatic (registration is required to ask for damages). Copyright laws outside the united States are a bit out of my area in theory there's no reason why they should affect me except at times I'm outside the country so I'll leave that out for now. Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution Quote:
On the next point authors do not have a right to earn a living from books they have the right to try. If no one buys their books too bad, if the whole buisness model used by publishers fails too bad, we all run the same risks of losing our jobs having the whole industry we work in disappear. People say its okay to just not buy a product if we don't like the industry or don't like the price tell me not in the moral sense not in the legal sense but in the monetary sense, what's the difference between refusing to buy and pirating? They were never going to get paid? Actually forget that let's talk instead about people who would pay. DRM, or no ebook being sold, people who would pay for what they want but its not being offered or being offered at an excessive price who are you to pick on them, they're getting screwed. Long post, let me sum up, you try not to speed but you do it so don't pretend you're somehow superior, I argue against unneeded unreasonable restrictions on liberty and laws that violate the Constitution of my home you argue for the interests of the people who caused the problem. You attack me before having any idea what it is I really do. |
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05-19-2010, 07:59 AM | #87 | |
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Dr Who Revelation of the Daleks 14 2 x Brian Keene out of print/unavailable as ebook 116 Scott Sigler Infected 10 Chronicles of Narnia 265 The only one approaching 4 figures was a complete Stephen King collection. |
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05-19-2010, 08:14 AM | #88 | |
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05-19-2010, 08:28 AM | #89 | |
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I don't want Toyota telling me that the engine block design in my car was just licensed to me only and I am taking money from hungry Toyota CEO children mouth by trading my car with this design in it. I don't want McMillan doing same either. Nobody is advocating piracy as an only way to distribute creative work, not that I read it in this thread anyway. So please stop building a straw man. But many pointing out the roots and extenuating circumstances as to why we sometimes forced to it. |
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05-19-2010, 08:34 AM | #90 | |
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
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as a corollary, the expression "those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind ; the public domain acts (in part, not exclusively) as a repository for history so that we don't forget it. and that suddenly gives it new importance for other fights against things like fascism, oppression, racism, tyranny... |
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file-sharing, legal, limewire, music, video |
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