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Old 05-05-2010, 09:24 PM   #31
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I like trade paperbacks. Cheaper and lighter than hardcovers, but nicer than flimsy mass market paperbacks. Nice trade off for something I want a permanent paper copy of.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:22 PM   #32
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I prefer trade paperbacks to hardcovers, but MM paperbacks to trade. It's mostly a storage and portability issue.

Which is, naturally, why I bought an ebook reader.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:37 PM   #33
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I find MMPB to be a lot nicer to hold and a lot easier to carry around. Plus it takes less room in the bookcase. And being cheaper helps too. I'm not paying that much for a book.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:02 AM   #34
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I'm not trying to say that there's some conspiracy to exclude the Oppressed Good Writers, like our hypothetical Joe Schmoe, or a real writer named Cherie who wrote possibly the worst science fiction novel ever committed (please don't post her full name lest you attract her!). What I'm saying is that any given publisher only can only bring out X titles per year, and in the pre-ebook days, there were only a handful (relatively speaking) of publishers, so they are accustomed to deciding which books get published and which don't. The decision as to who is a "real author" and who is a slushpile reject lay with them and them alone, and that position led to a certain mindset which is killing them today. They still think of books as "paper things things we print and sell" when books have become something much more complex than that.

As far as "...finders, nurturers, marketers of writing that they think either deserves an audience or will sell for some other reason...", from a reader's perspective, they are looking more and more like "packagers of whatever can make some fast money in the three months it's in the stores before people come to their senses." Risk-averse bean counters want guaranteed sales, which works in favor of the next scandalous celebrity bio instead of the next genuinely great novel, or even the next book that will still be selling five years from now.

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But mostly, what's published lies above some basic threshold of quality. And the editing process helps to ensure that. The same does not apply across the board to self-publishing.
That's the idea, anyway. Except that the quality has been sinking, the quality:price ratio has been sinking faster, and I'm getting a feeling that instead of trying to maintain the value of their imprint, or perhaps their imprimatur, they're just trading on their names until they wear them out, at which point they have nothing. Look at how GM screwed themselves with the Cadillac Cimarron, which did to Cadillac what no competitor ever could. Apparently nobody told them that sticking a Cadillac badge on a Chevy Cavalier doesn't improve the Cavalier; instead it debases the Cadillac brand.* True, GM had been just slapping those badges on second-rate cars for a number of years, but the Cimarron was the final straw.

By the way, I'm curious: how much of publishers' business problems do you feel are the result of the excesses of the 90's, with the insane bidding wars, outrageous advances for books not yet written, etc?


*note for non-car-geeks: the Cadillac Cimarron was meant to compete with European sport sedans. So far so good, except it was quite literally a Chevy Cavalier with a fancy trim package and a whopping price tag. It nearly destroyed Cadillac as a brand, and the marque still has not fully recoverd.

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Old 05-06-2010, 02:56 AM   #35
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I think the publishing industry's problems have more to do with a general decline in reading as a pleasure activity, which has many causes but certainly the explosive growth of TV, film, internet, and other media is a big factor--competition for the leisure and entertainment dollar (and time). In my little corner, the SF world, it has become harder and harder for even previously successful midlist authors to keep a decent audience. And this at a time when SF in the visual media is soaring. Attention spans don't support the reading of thoughtful books as much as they used to. (I feel it myself in my own reading.)

Another big factor, according to those who know, is the huge consolidation within the distribution network--with over a hundred distributors shrinking down to just a handful. Everything is done by computer. The days of the local or regional rep or delivery guy who knew his own local market are gone. More power in a handful, and thus more bias to the assured big-seller. Similarly, every time I hear of yet another publishing house being gobbled up by a larger corporation, usually held by overseas investors, I wince--because there goes another bit of diversity, and probably a few hundred publishing jobs held by people who love to make books.

But I'm sure there are many other reasons, as well.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:12 AM   #36
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Yep, lots of the media literally being sellouts hasn't helped them, that is for sure.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:38 PM   #37
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In my little corner, the SF world, it has become harder and harder for even previously successful midlist authors to keep a decent audience.
Anecdotally speaking as a heavy SF & Fantasy reader since the '60s, it's not because I read less. It's because there's more to choose from. It used to be that I'd only be able to pick currently-in-print novels that were stocked at the local bookstore. I rarely ordered something not on the shelf. Then Amazon.com (et al) expanded my potential selections of in-print novels and since I was going to wait a couple days to receive a new book there was no longer a barrier to waiting the same time for an older novel that no longer ever showed up at my bookstore. With the advent of ebooks, previously out-of-print books have started appearing again. Looks like Google Books will be taking that further.

SF authors are no longer competing for reading time against just their active and/or popular reprinted peers. There is a tremendous amount of very good, previously-published mid-list SF(&F) from years or decades ago by dead or currently inactive writers that disappeared and is now reappearing. There's an awful lot of excellent stuff I missed in the 80s and 90s that I can now read. That leaves a correspondingly smaller amount of time to read new SF.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:04 PM   #38
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SF authors are no longer competing for reading time against just their active and/or popular reprinted peers. There is a tremendous amount of very good, previously-published mid-list SF(&F) from years or decades ago by dead or currently inactive writers that disappeared and is now reappearing. There's an awful lot of excellent stuff I missed in the 80s and 90s that I can now read. That leaves a correspondingly smaller amount of time to read new SF.
That's a good point. Also, the ready availability of used books online has cut seriously into the reprint market. Fewer and fewer o.p. books get a second chance these days. Of course, that same availability also helps bring new readers to an author, so it's a two-edged sword. You get new readers but no income--in the short term, anyway.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #39
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Used books are like used bookcases: neither brings in any income to the guy who made it. However, unlike bookcases, books prominently feature the creator's name, so there's a lot better chance of a used book generating further sales than there is with a used bookcase.

I forget who said it here, but they were right: If ebooks, especially backlist titles, were priced to compete with used books, instead of priced not to compete with hardcovers, sales would soar.

Of course, that would kill the local used book stores, and in this day and age of bland corporate superstores, they're among the last of the real independents. No online community can duplicate the experience of hanging out after school at the used book store and discovering not only a world of books but a world of book lovers.

The used book store I grew to adulthood in is long since closed, its owner long since passed on to the great library in the sky, and yet to me, science fiction, fandom, even reading itself, are defined by that place, a little hole-in-the-wall store in a basement, with cinder-block shelves, hand-lettered signs, rare comics hanging over the register, and an outside light over the stairs that was never quite straight again after I whacked it with my head while swinging over the railing -- stairs were for wusses. I met lifelong friends in that store, and developed some of the interests that are at the core of my being. More than anywhere else outside my home, that store and the reading community centered around it shaped who I am. We're losing those special places, thanks to the decline of reading and the rise of ebooks. While it may be inevitable, it is nonetheless sad. As much as I like ABE, for instance -- where else can I find odd works on military history that have been out of print for decades? -- it will never be Book Swap.

Ah, lack of sleep makes me maudlin. Maybe BVC needs to establish store hours, so I don't buy a book late at night and find myself unable to put it down (or should that be turn it off?).
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:04 PM   #40
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But your Sony could handle DRM if you wanted. So I take it you don't borrow library ePub that you would then be able to read for FREE?
Not at the moment. I expect I'll eventually want free DRM'd ebooks enough to sort out how to install the various softwares involved, and decide which machines to install them on. (Home computer? Laptop? Work computer--probably not. Sony Reader? Probably, except I don't know if the Adobe software would be enough, or if I'd specifically need Sony's software, which I can't get at the moment.) Then there's the trouble of downloading DRM'd ebooks over dialup; I don't know how likely they are to crash or get corrupted.

Bleh. Too much hassle. When I run out of great fanfic and the occasional Baen or Smashwords purchase to read, I'll look again.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:08 PM   #41
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Not at the moment. I expect I'll eventually want free DRM'd ebooks enough to sort out how to install the various softwares involved, and decide which machines to install them on. (Home computer? Laptop? Work computer--probably not. Sony Reader? Probably, except I don't know if the Adobe software would be enough, or if I'd specifically need Sony's software, which I can't get at the moment.) Then there's the trouble of downloading DRM'd ebooks over dialup; I don't know how likely they are to crash or get corrupted.

Bleh. Too much hassle. When I run out of great fanfic and the occasional Baen or Smashwords purchase to read, I'll look again.
All you actually need is an account at adobe.com and ADE. Then you can authorize ADE and your Sony. After you are all set with ADE and your Sony, all you need to borrow library eBooks is your web browser. You would download the ACSM file which would tell ADE to download the eBook and once downloaded, you can use ADE or Reader Library to move the eBook to your Sony. It's not difficult and even on dialup it will work fine (just slower).
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:45 PM   #42
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All you actually need is an account at adobe.com and ADE. Then you can authorize ADE and your Sony. After you are all set with ADE and your Sony, all you need to borrow library eBooks is your web browser. You would download the ACSM file which would tell ADE to download the eBook and once downloaded, you can use ADE or Reader Library to move the eBook to your Sony. It's not difficult and even on dialup it will work fine (just slower).
I regularly use three different computers, plus the Sony. One of the computers can't be authorized for anything. (Work computer.) I can access much of the web from work (hi!) and even shop for & download ebooks, but installing software requires special permissions.

Can't get the Sony Library software. Too big for dialup and it's apparently on a weird server; the download crashes partway through. (I know there's not actually a "too big for dialup;" I've downloaded 30+mb files before. But they take a loooooong time, and I need a better reason than "I'll be able to check out the occasional library book.") Dialup download is ~5minutes/mb.

Currently, I don't use the Reader library or Calibre to move books on & off my reader; I use the explorer window. (Which means I don't get categories/tags, so I tend to edit the titles in the metadata with a prefix that I want them to sort with.) Having to install special software onto three computers (one of which may not let me install it), with authorization weirdness, is too much hassle.

My local-local library doesn't have ADE ebooks. I could get a card for the San Francisco library, which does--but again, more hassle, and I'm not out of non-DRM'd stuff to read yet.

Doctorow's new book comes out tomorrow.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:42 PM   #43
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...
In my little corner, the SF world, it has become harder and harder for even previously successful midlist authors to keep a decent audience.
...
As someone who has been reading SF since the mid 70's, I don't think the issue is so much people reading less, at least people that I know who read, don't read any less. To a certain extent, it's a chicken and egg thing. The number of books that I'm interested in seems to decrease, which means that I have to look in other genres to find books to read. Ever since the 80's, SF has been in a decline, with authors moving into other genres or dropping out of writing entirely. Right now, the SF/F genres seems to be dominated by pseudo romance novel writers, a la Laurell Hamilton. Of course, that style writing has it's own set of fans and appears to be successful, but I think that it drives out the traditional SF writer and their fans.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:10 PM   #44
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As someone who has been reading SF since the mid 70's, I don't think the issue is so much people reading less, at least people that I know who read, don't read any less. To a certain extent, it's a chicken and egg thing. The number of books that I'm interested in seems to decrease, which means that I have to look in other genres to find books to read. Ever since the 80's, SF has been in a decline, with authors moving into other genres or dropping out of writing entirely. Right now, the SF/F genres seems to be dominated by pseudo romance novel writers, a la Laurell Hamilton. Of course, that style writing has it's own set of fans and appears to be successful, but I think that it drives out the traditional SF writer and their fans.
I don't know if decline is the right word, exactly, though a lot of the writing has been more pessimistic and exploring the darker side of human nature and society. I've become tired of that, myself. As for authors leaving the field, that's often because they can't make enough income from writing SF, and they find they can do better in other genres, or other careers. There does seem to be more stratification: the romance-SF (Asaro, Lee&Miller, etc.), the military SF (Drake, Weber), the steampunk and gritty realism SF, the hard SF and space opera.

A more specific problem, in my view (though probably not unrelated) is that the audience is graying. We're not picking up enough young readers. Lots of kids read, and fantasy remains popular, but traditional SF does not seem to draw the young readers the way it once did. Not that they don't like the genre, I don't think--but they seem to get their fix in movies, anime, manga, graphic novels, etc., more than in the traditional form of SF novels. For the writer whose skills are honed in novels, this presents something of a challenge. A lot of us are still trying to figure out how to adapt.
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