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Old 04-28-2010, 09:23 PM   #226
Joykins
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I put it in airplane mode before entering the plane.

I put it in sleep mode or off when taking off/landing (it's an e-ink reader). Now that the nook doesn't lose my place everytime I turn it off, I'll be turning it off.

I bring along a dead tree book to read during takeoff/landing so I don't get bored during about 20 minutes per flight.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:54 AM   #227
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Well, I am European too - and being polite doesn't hurt me as much as people who think that their individual rights come before the convenience of the crowd. Don't you English believe in the old 'my home is my castle' saying. So why do you think that you can do as you please in other people's places/homes? That's just rude.


Well Said Katti
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:25 AM   #228
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I really doubt that any device is off when not turning a page, the biggest evidence is the page turn rate. I think they are in a deep sleep mode, but one that will respond in a very short time, but it is still responsive to interrupts etc.
But by that definition almost nothing is turned off. I'd have to remove the battery from my PDA, for example. As that reacts in a very short time and I can turn it on by pushing any button on it (unless I turn that feature off, but that's more a keylock than anything else).
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:58 PM   #229
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But by that definition almost nothing is turned off. I'd have to remove the battery from my PDA, for example. As that reacts in a very short time and I can turn it on by pushing any button on it (unless I turn that feature off, but that's more a keylock than anything else).
That is correct, most consumer devices can be turned off (your PDA has a method I would guess, most do), but normally hitting the button just puts them to sleep, not off.

I don't know if it is a problem or not. Some devices are in a very quiet state in this form, others are not. I am not making that call, I have worked with too many consumer devices to pretend to know about them all, since they are all so different. If you want to follow the rules and be sure, learn how to turn your device off and do it.

--Carl
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:13 PM   #230
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Interestingly, a study was done in 2003 of actual use. Turns out many a-holes just ignore the rules as proved by the on-board spectrum analyzers they flew.The opinion of the engineers was that cell phone use, at least, did represent a real hazard.
I know that if I am on a flight and see someone using a phone, I will reach for the call button as fast as my hand can move. What really needs to happen is the FCC needs to evaluate all gadgets for their air safety as part of the already required FCC certification and certify and label them as to whether they can be used in flight or not. So far this has not been done.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:26 AM   #231
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Interestingly, a study was done in 2003 of actual use. Turns out many a-holes just ignore the rules as proved by the on-board spectrum analyzers they flew.The opinion of the engineers was that cell phone use, at least, did represent a real hazard.
I know that if I am on a flight and see someone using a phone, I will reach for the call button as fast as my hand can move.
100% agreed!

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What really needs to happen is the FCC needs to evaluate all gadgets for their air safety as part of the already required FCC certification and certify and label them as to whether they can be used in flight or not. So far this has not been done.
That would be a good approach, but the trouble is that, as I and pricecw have pointed out - certification is far from foolproof. There are many reasons why emissions can vary between different firmware versions on devices, and it's certainly not usual for manufacturers to resubmit their products for recertification with each firmware release.

As well as that, any device which can run user-installed applications, be it a laptop or a smartphone or an iPod Touch or whatever, can have emissions which are dependent on the apps running. (Admittedly, the effect here is usually minimal, but isn't necessarily so.)

Having said that, certification is clearly part of the solution, along with bringing FCC and FAA requirements into line, more studies on the sensitivity of the planes' systems and work on improving their immunity levels.

/JB
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:13 AM   #232
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What really needs to happen is the FCC needs to evaluate all gadgets for their air safety as part of the already required FCC certification and certify and label them as to whether they can be used in flight or not. So far this has not been done.
You mean the FAA, not FCC, but you're right, that's the crux of the problem. The FAA takes air safety VERY seriously (which is a good thing). You would not believe the amount of testing that is required to certify a new piece of electronic gear to be installed on an airplane, and this is stuff coming from companies that are specifically designing electronics for flight operations. The FAA's main point of view is that if it has not been thoroughly tested and certified, then they don't want to take the risk. If they don't KNOW that a device is safe, then they say that you have to turn it off. If you look at it case by case, are there some devices where it seems silly to require them being turned off... sure. But the general policy from the FAA is, for the most part, a good one. If they're not positive, then the answer is no. The only way they are positive is if it goes through their certification.

No company selling consumer electronics (cell phones, etc) that are not specifically being designed/sold for flight operations is going to want to spend the amount of time and especially money it would take to get it certified by the FAA. Such use would only be a tiny part of their market anyway.

Last edited by Shaggy; 04-30-2010 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:17 AM   #233
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That would be a good approach, but the trouble is that, as I and pricecw have pointed out - certification is far from foolproof. There are many reasons why emissions can vary between different firmware versions on devices, and it's certainly not usual for manufacturers to resubmit their products for recertification with each firmware release.
I believe that if they really did get FAA certification, they would be required to re-certify every time they changed anything. That's one of the reasons it's very expensive, and we'll not likely see consumer electronics go through it.

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As well as that, any device which can run user-installed applications, be it a laptop or a smartphone or an iPod Touch or whatever, can have emissions which are dependent on the apps running. (Admittedly, the effect here is usually minimal, but isn't necessarily so.)
Similarly, I doubt an FAA certified device would be able to allow user applications and still keep it's certification.

I don't think FAA certification is realistic for consumer devices. That's why we still have the "switch off all electronic devices" rule in place. I don't think it's likely to change.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:28 AM   #234
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I believe that if they really did get FAA certification, they would be required to re-certify every time they changed anything. That's one of the reasons it's very expensive, and we'll not likely see consumer electronics go through it.



Similarly, I doubt an FAA certified device would be able to allow user applications and still keep it's certification.

I don't think FAA certification is realistic for consumer devices. That's why we still have the "switch off all electronic devices" rule in place. I don't think it's likely to change.
Agreed. That level of certification would not be feasible for consumer devices.

/JB
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