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Old 04-17-2010, 08:56 AM   #16
JSWolf
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Originally Posted by Barcey View Post
I just think the blame and anger belongs directed at the price fixing cartel (gang of 5) and Apple used them to get what was good for Apple.

It's like when a spouse cheats and all the anger gets directed at the person they cheated with. It was obviously the fault of that smooth talking Steve Jobs guy.

I'm not saying Apple is blameless, I just don't think the primary fault should be laid at their feet.
I think it is mostly Apple's fault. If Apple had not allowed this Agency model, then they would not have gotten it and would not have been able to then bully everyone else into it.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:43 AM   #17
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Everyone ought to just keep in mind that this model of pricing only works because 90% of the people who are complaining about it are still buying the books. That is the only thing Jobs and the rest of the industry cares about. You can complain all you want, but if you're still buying the books, then the industry couldn't care less about the complaints. Just refuse to buy the books - good Lord, why would anyone ever need to pay for a book anyway? There are enough samples of quality literature on Project Gutenberg alone to easily fill a couple of lifetimes worth of reading, a good deal of which was written by people who write like they actually graduated from elementary school. Anyway, just vote with your wallet.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by cmdahler View Post
Everyone ought to just keep in mind that this model of pricing only works because 90% of the people who are complaining about it are still buying the books. That is the only thing Jobs and the rest of the industry cares about. You can complain all you want, but if you're still buying the books, then the industry couldn't care less about the complaints. Just refuse to buy the books - good Lord, why would anyone ever need to pay for a book anyway? There are enough samples of quality literature on Project Gutenberg alone to easily fill a couple of lifetimes worth of reading, a good deal of which was written by people who write like they actually graduated from elementary school. Anyway, just vote with your wallet.

I agree one hundred percent. The publishing industry and, shamed as I am to admit this, the independent publishing world are criminally bland at the moment. I've now shifted all my reading to Public Domain works where the writing and the stories are by far more interesting, engrossing and challenging.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
...
My take on is that it will eventually play out that the e-book is launched at a higher price when the hardcover is the only version out (not the hardcover cover price, but maybe $15 or so varying by book), then will drop to at or below the paperback price when that version is released.
I have no problem with that scheme if that is indeed what comes to play. ...
Your last sentence in the quote really gets to the heart of my concern, I don't believe that their prices will follow their proposed pricing. The whole reason for the agency model is to control the price., and in my opinion keep them high. Just think about it they could have always had control over the MSRP and could have adopted a similar pricing model as their proposed agency model. So then why go to an agency model... To prevent retail stores from dropping the price of an eBook to the price where ebooks are much more attractive than their paper counterparts.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:40 AM   #20
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I honestly don't understand what all the crying is about. I've had a reader for over 3 years now and I've yet to actually buy a book. There is so much available in the public domain that it can keep even the most avid reader busy for years.

I also honestly don't understand why everything is always Apple's fault. They brokered deals for their ebookstore just like they did with the music labels. There is absolutely no reason that Amazon/B&N/etc can't broker their own deals.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Crying here and playing the blame game is a waste of time.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Steve Jobs has caused ebooks to take a huge step backwards with the prices rising after all the other retailers were starting to lower their prices.
I think it is a huge step forward since the backlists are or will be available and the ebook are be available at the same time as the hardcover and the price of the ebook will be lowered automatically when time passes.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:54 AM   #22
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It's unfathomable to me the influence of one person (and his company) to virtually derail an entire industry.
Yes, Amazon was on the way to derail an entire industry. So one more big entity saved the situation.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:29 PM   #23
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I honestly don't understand what all the crying is about. I've had a reader for over 3 years now and I've yet to actually buy a book. There is so much available in the public domain that it can keep even the most avid reader busy for years.
To paraphrase a popular statement from the apple forum, if you don't buy books then you have no right to an opinion on pricing.

Quote:
I also honestly don't understand why everything is always Apple's fault. They brokered deals for their ebookstore just like they did with the music labels. There is absolutely no reason that Amazon/B&N/etc can't broker their own deals.
While many things are apple's fault, this isn't one of them, if it hadn't been apple then the publishers would have taken advantage of whoever came along that was potentially large enough to play off against amazon.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:23 PM   #24
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To paraphrase a popular statement from the apple forum, if you don't buy books then you have no right to an opinion on pricing.
I don't recall ever seeing that on the Apple forums but I generally don't go to the iTunes related ones.

The biggest reason I don't buy ebooks is the quality of modern "literature" is poor at best while being sold at a premium. Before B&N closed in our town, I'd flip through the new books to see if I wanted to buy the ebook version and invariably the answer was no.

I also believe that if I'm going to buy the book, I expect proper spelling and grammar. I'm reading a somewhat interesting Creative Commons novel and I was going to donate to the author but the level of misspelling is unacceptable. It seems that he didn't even bother to use a spellchecker or have a second set of eyes proofread it. Murdered is consistently spelled mirrdered. AU appears anywhere that All is used as the first word of a sentence, etc.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
I honestly don't understand what all the crying is about. I've had a reader for over 3 years now and I've yet to actually buy a book. There is so much available in the public domain that it can keep even the most avid reader busy for years.

I also honestly don't understand why everything is always Apple's fault. They brokered deals for their ebookstore just like they did with the music labels. There is absolutely no reason that Amazon/B&N/etc can't broker their own deals.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Crying here and playing the blame game is a waste of time.
some of us actually DO like to buy current popular books. it's great if your reading needs are being met by free offerings, but not everyone wants to do that. I get a LOT of my stuff through the free offers as well, but, as is intended, occasionally the first in a series or just a new author is available, and my interest is piqued. and sometimes there are books you learn about that just sound good. if we don't "cry" here now, we'll be taken advantage of for years
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:04 PM   #26
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So while I still agree with the general premise, I just have to say again that some of y'all need to get a grip. Really.

Availability will improve, since the major publishers will not have to worry about ebooks sabotaging high-margin hardcover sales; e.g. Macmillan's CEO has publicly stated they will put out the ebook at the same time paper first goes on sale. The real issue that has temporarily affected availability is that a few smaller ebook retailers did not handle the transition to the agency model properly. Perhaps they didn't get enough notice, perhaps their DBA's suck, but whatever happened it was short-lived. Meanwhile, on Amazon alone the number of ebooks has gone from around 400,000 to nearly 500,000 since January 1st, 2010.

Thus, it's a tad silly to conflate a retailer fumbling a major pricing change with "ongoing lack of availability," especially since the numbers indicate otherwise.

Prices also aren't affected nearly as badly as the Chicken Littles proclaim. Some new ebooks are expensive, others are still at $10 or so. As a title gets older, it will drop in price -- just in the same way that a new hardcover gets released as a less expensive paperback after a delay. I'm sure someone will drum up a handful of titles that cost more than they are willing to pay, but really you'd have to do a full analysis with a representative sample of commercial titles, before and after the agency model, to get an accurate picture.

I might add that the $10 price point was not exactly universal prior to the agency model. Sony, B&N, Amazon and others didn't always hew to that exact price point, and when they did it was often subsidized by the retailer in order to try and gain market share.

Lastly, ebooks are still in their infancy, and sales still only account for 5% or less of the total book market. There are plenty of people who have never bought a commercial ebook, who will not necessarily have the expectation that "ebooks ought to be $10," and won't flinch nearly as badly at paying $13 for a NY Times Bestseller in ebook form.

IMO all this doom, gloom and bile is not fully justifiable, and I seriously doubt it will result in the destruction of an entire tier of the book industry as some believe (or desire).
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:12 PM   #27
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Sales of eBooks has been up while sales of hardcovers is down. This should say something about such high prices.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
At the end of the day, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Crying here and playing the blame game is a waste of time.
There was no crying (notice the lack of a crying smiley). I am not playing a game and stating my opinion (first letters of the first post ..."IMO") is not a waste of time and if it is, it is my time to waste.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Crowl View Post
While many things are apple's fault, this isn't one of them, if it hadn't been apple then the publishers would have taken advantage of whoever came along that was potentially large enough to play off against amazon.
Or maybe not. Maybe no one else would have gone that route.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
I also believe that if I'm going to buy the book, I expect proper spelling and grammar. I'm reading a somewhat interesting Creative Commons novel and I was going to donate to the author but the level of misspelling is unacceptable. It seems that he didn't even bother to use a spellchecker or have a second set of eyes proofread it. Murdered is consistently spelled mirrdered. AU appears anywhere that All is used as the first word of a sentence, etc.
One of the reasons they don't, IMO, deserve to charge higher prices for ebooks. Way too many of them have formatting and spelling issues.
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