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Old 04-03-2010, 08:04 AM   #1
gunjangarg1
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ADE and Hindi Language

Hi all,

I am trying to create an epub for Hindi language. I am aware that I need to embed fonts for it to display properly. Looking at the examples available I have been able to do so.

But I still face 2 majors issues:
a) Contents on the left panel(TOC) are still being displayed as ????. Though, it gets render fine in the center panel. Reason which i can think of is, no style.css being included in the toc.ncx file. Can someone please tell me, if thats the problem or something else? In case, the problem is because of toc.ncx file, then how can I included the stylesheet in that..

b) The choti matra for 'e' renders after the character.. I have tried diff variants to Hindi fonts to get rid of this.. But no relief so far..

Please note:
*The same epub opens fine on Calibre, Firefox Epub Reader.
I am having issues with ADE in particular.

*Fonts tried Lohit/gargi/gurumaa/mangal

*I am having the same problem with Tamil language too.

Any kind of help in this regard will be simply great.
Looking forward to hear from experts.

Regards,
Gunjan
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:42 AM   #2
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The TOC issue is a known bug in mobile ADE: it always uses the default font to display the TOC. I don't think there is any work around, although it just occurred to me that there is a very small chance that redefining the default font (serif) in the CSS might work:
Code:
@font-face {
font-family: "MSYaHei", serif, sans-serif;
The simplest fix for this can only be done by the vendor: replace the very limited Adobe font with a better font (e.g. better unicode coverage) as the default. I am surprised that Infibeam isn't already doing this on the Pi, but perhaps Netronix is providing their firmware support. It is my understanding that Adobe is OK with the device vendors doing this, but most don't bother to do so.

The choti matra bug can probably only be fixed by Adobe. It is caused by the choti matra coming after the letter it applies to in the text stream, but before it on the screen. So this isn't fixable with a font change.

Last edited by wallcraft; 04-03-2010 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The TOC issue is a known bug in mobile ADE: it always uses the default font to display the TOC. I don't think there is any work around, although it just occurred to me that there is a very small chance that redefining the default font (serif) in the CSS might work:
Code:
@font-face {
font-family: "MSYaHei", serif, sans-serif;
The simplest fix for this can only be done by the vendor: replace the very limited Adobe font with a better font (e.g. better unicode coverage) as the default. I am surprised that Infibeam isn't already doing this on the Pi, but perhaps Netronix is providing their firmware support. It is my understanding that Adobe is OK with the device vendors doing this, but most don't bother to do so.

The choti matra bug can probably only be fixed by Adobe. It is caused by the choti matra coming after the letter it applies to in the text stream, but before it on the screen. So this isn't fixable with a font change.
I don't know if it's the result of my re-defining the default serif font or the fact that I've also installed the custom Russian firmware, but my TOC displays correctly in Russian EPUBs.
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Old 04-04-2010, 03:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunjangarg1 View Post
a) Contents on the left panel(TOC) are still being displayed as ????.
As Wallcraft said, this is a known bug in ADE. Not only the TOC of the book will have question marks, but also the table of contents of all the book titles and authors in the device will be wrong.

As far as I know there are only two solutions:

If you are an end user and want to read Tamil books in your device, you can try to find information how to change the system font of your reader (or you buy another reader, a good one now!)

If you are a vendor, you can hardly expect that all your clients start adapting the firmware. In this case the only thing you can do is give a warning to your customers. Something like: Attention, books in Tamil cannot be read properly on these devices: Sony ... etc.

I think you really need a list of devices here. Telling that readers based on ADE are no good, isn't a solution. Most of your customers probably aren't aware what ADE is. Not everyone is a member of this forum.
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulpeer View Post
As Wallcraft said, this is a known bug in ADE. Not only the TOC of the book will have question marks, but also the table of contents of all the book titles and authors in the device will be wrong.

As far as I know there are only two solutions:

If you are an end user and want to read Tamil books in your device, you can try to find information how to change the system font of your reader (or you buy another reader, a good one now!)

If you are a vendor, you can hardly expect that all your clients start adapting the firmware. In this case the only thing you can do is give a warning to your customers. Something like: Attention, books in Tamil cannot be read properly on these devices: Sony ... etc.

I think you really need a list of devices here. Telling that readers based on ADE are no good, isn't a solution. Most of your customers probably aren't aware what ADE is. Not everyone is a member of this forum.
Wouldn't you say that was a little strong to say that Tamil cannot be read properly, when the only problem is in metadata. The book can be read fine unless I am missing something. The publisher could say something about the metadata I suppose but that does not detract from reading the book.

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Old 04-05-2010, 02:21 AM   #6
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@wallcraft - I have not tried this on Pi, but on my system(both linux/ Windows environment) it is not working properly.

I wonder if Adobe is aware of this problem of 'matras'.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
Wouldn't you say that was a little strong to say that Tamil cannot be read properly, when the only problem is in metadata. The book can be read fine unless I am missing something. The publisher could say something about the metadata I suppose but that does not detract from reading the book.

Dale
Not only the metadata cannot be read. The main problem is the table of contents of the device: imagine you have a reader with 50 books in Tamil, or Hindi). In the TOC you'll see a beautiful list of 50 rows of question marks. If you want to open a certain book, you will have to try them all and hope the one you are looking for isn't the 50th ...

Last edited by paulpeer; 04-05-2010 at 06:50 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulpeer View Post
Not only the metadata cannot be read. The main problem is the table of contents of the device: imagine you have a reader with 50 books in Tamil, or Hindi). In the TOC you'll see a beautiful list of 50 rows of question marks. If you want to open a certain book, you will have to try them all and hope the one you are looking for isn't the 50th ...
There are two different things being discussed here:

1. The table of contents of the book. This will indeed use the device font which may or may not support the appropriate characters. A way around this is to have an "internal" TOC in the book itself, implemented with hyperlinks.

2. The list of books on the device - ie the "library". This may display metadata from the book or it may simply display the filename, depending on the device.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:54 PM   #9
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2. The list of books on the device - ie the "library". This may display metadata from the book or it may simply display the filename, depending on the device.
In addition, the system font used by the library is typically different from the one used by Adobe Digital Editions. In my experience, most vendor's use a reasonably capable font for its library view.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:04 AM   #10
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In my experience, most vendor's use a reasonably capable font for its library view.
Could be, but e. g. the Sony reader that I have, uses squares in the library. Not more useful than the question marks that ADE uses.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:21 PM   #11
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Could be, but e. g. the Sony reader that I have, uses squares in the library. Not more useful than the question marks that ADE uses.
Sony uses a very old version of ADE and was only designed for English when it was released. I wouldn't think it is a very good example to measure by. But, of course, if this is what you own then this is what you judge by. I really wish Sony would upgrade their firmware but even it the newer models they rereleased that old junk to remain compatible with their old unit but not compatible with anybody else.

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Old 04-06-2010, 07:16 PM   #12
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Sony uses a very old version of ADE and was only designed for English when it was released.
Are you saying that the newer versions of ADE have larger Unicode glyph coverage by default? AFAIK that's not true.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:18 PM   #13
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Are you saying that the newer versions of ADE have larger Unicode glyph coverage by default? AFAIK that's not true.
No but the TOC does not use ADE fonts. The old Sony system has very poor built in fonts. It should have been updated for international use.

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Old 04-07-2010, 12:09 PM   #14
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No but the TOC does not use ADE fonts. The old Sony system has very poor built in fonts. It should have been updated for international use.
I know, but what I'm saying is that this is not because the Sony PRS-505 uses "and old version of ADE" because even current ADE still does this. The glyph coverage is the same across the versions.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:08 PM   #15
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I know, but what I'm saying is that this is not because the Sony PRS-505 uses "and old version of ADE" because even current ADE still does this. The glyph coverage is the same across the versions.
You are correct. I did not say exactly what I meant. The behavior of using certain glyphs have changed but the set is the same.
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