Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-22-2010, 02:43 PM   #16
K-Thom
Wizard
K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K-Thom ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,302
Karma: 535819
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany
Device: yup!
Quote:
I dare say this is not the worst example of privacy infringement, but whatever the other advantages of Amazon devices might be, this just stopped me buying one.
Well, this means you won't ever buy any device with built-in or linked online store. Because that's the way they have to work.

And Amazon states cleary "may be stored", not "may be used or altered or deleted".

What are you afraid of, actually? Which would be fine with me. It's your sentiment. Just curious.
K-Thom is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:16 PM   #17
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,046
Karma: 7673161
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Thom View Post
Well, this means you won't ever buy any device with built-in or linked online store. Because that's the way they have to work.
Is it? Or are we simply accepting that, because this is the way it is designed to work, this is the way it has to work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Thom View Post
And Amazon states cleary "may be stored", not "may be used or altered or deleted".

What are you afraid of, actually? Which would be fine with me. It's your sentiment. Just curious.
I'm not sure I'm "afraid" of anything, but what I am uncomfortable with is the idea that, as a condition of buying this device I have to give this company the right to do these things. Maybe I want to keep business documents on there for the purposes of reading them away from a computer, maybe I've got legal documents on there, maybe I've got personal information about myself or colleagues on there. There seem to be all sorts of legitimate reasons for not wanting Amazon to be able to access that data. However, there seems to be no way of preventing it - indeed, I am required to agree to allowing it if if I buy the device - if I also use the device for the purpose of downloading and reading books.
TGS is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:22 PM   #18
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The reason for all this data storage, in case it's escaped anyone's notice...
Where does it explicitly state that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Thom View Post
Because that's the way they have to work.
Really, a store which has a purchase history of your orders need to know anything at all about the status of content on your device, needs to know about content on the device unrelated to the store and needs to send a record of your location and device status at all times?

This will be news to a lot of device manufacturers.

Last edited by DawnFalcon; 03-22-2010 at 03:26 PM.
DawnFalcon is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:52 PM   #19
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,726
Karma: 13899548
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
If that is your concern, you might want to move to a shack in Montana and go off the grid. Or at least buy your paper books with cash and get rid of your cell phone.

...

The South Texas brush country is just as empty and is lots warmer.....

Going off the grid is slowly reaching price parity to being on the grid...

Hmm...I wonder if you could get by with prepaid debit cards for online purchases...

Don't have a cell phone... Waste of money for me. If I did, I'd take the battery out of it unless I planned to use it....

Y'all missed one! Do your downloads at a public wifi hotspot on a cheap, disposable netbook you bought for cash...


"The price for freedom is eternal vigilance." Part of that vigilance is not letting everybody and his dog track you whenever they feel like it. Of course, if shiny is more important to you....
Ralph Sir Edward is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:46 PM   #20
Jonas777
Groupie
Jonas777 has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.Jonas777 has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.Jonas777 has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.Jonas777 has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Jonas777's Avatar
 
Posts: 153
Karma: 364
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sweden
Device: Amazon Kindle 2 Intl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
I actually like that feature. You report your car stolen and not only can you find out where it is, it's also disabled so the thief can't use it either.
It also allowes disgruntled employees some fun: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Disgr...m-137854.shtml
Jonas777 is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:51 PM   #21
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,726
Karma: 13899548
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas777 View Post
It also allowes disgruntled employees some fun: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Disgr...m-137854.shtml
One of the many reasons I'm not so trusting....
Ralph Sir Edward is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:03 PM   #22
Kali Yuga
Professional Contrarian
Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kali Yuga's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
Is it? Or are we simply accepting that, because this is the way it is designed to work, this is the way it has to work?
a) Young whippersnappers these days have different standards for privacy. They're much more willing to share private info, so they are less likely to have concerns.
b) It's a trade-off in exchange for the ability to sync your ebook data to multiple devices.
c) Although I have no doubt that Amazon engages in extensive data mining, I can't imagine they would actually find any useful information in my bookmarks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS
Maybe I want to keep business documents on there for the purposes of reading them away from a computer, maybe I've got legal documents on there, maybe I've got personal information about myself or colleagues on there.
a) FYI, Amazon only syncs data about the books you purchase through them. Load your own PDF onto the device, and they will not track or care about it.
b) Keep in mind any work computer, or an email account offered to you by an employer, can be monitored and accessed at any time and for any reason by your employer.
c) Also, lots of data is moving "into the cloud." E.g. Dropbox stores and syncs data to Amazon S3 servers; Google Docs resides on their servers, etc.
d) Oh, and every bit of email you have is sitting on a server somewhere -- and in general an email is about as secure and private as a postcard. So every day, you are likely releasing a ton of private and financial data into the Wild West of the Internets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS
There seem to be all sorts of legitimate reasons for not wanting Amazon to be able to access that data. However, there seems to be no way of preventing it - indeed, I am required to agree to allowing it if if I buy the device - if I also use the device for the purpose of downloading and reading books.
This is true, there are legit reasons to be wary and generally speaking you can't prevent it. But there is a trade-off, in that any retailer that allows you to sync notes, last read location etc across multiple devices will essentially demand that same info.

For my part, I see no particular cause for concern. YMMV. But if you're worried about this, I will say you are going to find it harder and harder to deal with an increasingly interconnected world, let alone fill out your census form.
Kali Yuga is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:25 PM   #23
vaughnmr
Ebook Reader
vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 604
Karma: 3205128
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View
I agree with Kali (now THAT's a big change!), if you have insurance, get medical care, have a bank account or credit card, deal with the government (IRS, driver's license), you are in someone's big database. Amazon is the least of my worries.
vaughnmr is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:57 PM   #24
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
a) FYI, Amazon only syncs data about the books you purchase through them. Load your own PDF onto the device, and they will not track or care about it.
That is not what the privacy policy says, however.

Quote:
b) Keep in mind any work computer, or an email account offered to you by an employer, can be monitored and accessed at any time and for any reason by your employer.
Don't assume your local law applies everywhere.

Quote:
c) Also, lots of data is moving "into the cloud." E.g. Dropbox stores and syncs data to Amazon S3 servers; Google Docs resides on their servers, etc.
And if you use them for sensitive material, you'll get sued when people find you've been doing it, yes.
DawnFalcon is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 07:43 PM   #25
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,046
Karma: 7673161
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
Whilst I take the point that everyone's at it anyway (data capture that is!), I'm not sure I follow the argument that a bit more of it doesn't matter. I've only been on MR a month and hadn't seen previous threads on the topic, but having looked a bit further it's interesting that some MR Kindle owners were concerned enough about it to try to write a hack to stop it happening, see this thread.
I guess it does come down to a trade off - if what Amazon offers in terms of service makes it worth agreeing to them doing all this other stuff (and what this other stuff amounts to seems to be less than certain), then that's fine. For me, when I was looking at the Amazon site with a view to buying a Kindle as a second reader this morning I was brought up short by what I was required to agree to. So, for now, I'll continue to side load stuff on to my unconnected, unsynced European IREX DR800 - and feel, naively, a bit safer for that.
TGS is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:06 PM   #26
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,726
Karma: 13899548
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
Whilst I take the point that everyone's at it anyway (data capture that is!), I'm not sure I follow the argument that a bit more of it doesn't matter. I've only been on MR a month and hadn't seen previous threads on the topic, but having looked a bit further it's interesting that some MR Kindle owners were concerned enough about it to try to write a hack to stop it happening, see this thread.
I guess it does come down to a trade off - if what Amazon offers in terms of service makes it worth agreeing to them doing all this other stuff (and what this other stuff amounts to seems to be less than certain), then that's fine. For me, when I was looking at the Amazon site with a view to buying a Kindle as a second reader this morning I was brought up short by what I was required to agree to. So, for now, I'll continue to side load stuff on to my unconnected, unsynced European IREX DR800 - and feel, naively, a bit safer for that.

And I keep a BeBook (Hanlin V3) for the same reason...
Ralph Sir Edward is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:06 PM   #27
kindlekitten
Professional Adventuress
kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kindlekitten's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,884
Karma: 47333846
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!)
Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle
y'all have an over inflated sense of self importance if you really believe that Amazon gives a rats left testicle about the content on your Kindle. so what if you have all of Harry Potter on it? how is Amazon to know where it came from? anyone is perfectly legally within their rights to tear up those books and scan them in. do you REALLY think anyone is going to spend time proving otherwise? now if you were doing it and SELLING the scanned copies, yeah, they'd probably get a little pissed and do something about it.

some folks really do qualify for aluminum foil hats! sheesh
kindlekitten is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:18 PM   #28
Bilbo1967
Not scared!
Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bilbo1967 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Bilbo1967's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,485
Karma: 26087830
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midlands, UK
Device: Sony 650, Sony T2, Xoom, Nexus 7 (2012 & 2013), Nook ST (x3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindlekitten View Post
y'all have an over inflated sense of self importance if you really believe that Amazon gives a rats left testicle about the content on your Kindle. so what if you have all of Harry Potter on it? how is Amazon to know where it came from? anyone is perfectly legally within their rights to tear up those books and scan them in. do you REALLY think anyone is going to spend time proving otherwise? now if you were doing it and SELLING the scanned copies, yeah, they'd probably get a little pissed and do something about it.

some folks really do qualify for aluminum foil hats! sheesh
How, exactly, would Amazon know who was and wasn't selling on copies of illegal books held on their Kindle? Perhaps they'd pass on details of all such people just to be on the safe side?

Besides, "When Freedoms are chiseled away......", or does that only apply to freedoms you agree with?
Bilbo1967 is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:21 PM   #29
vaughnmr
Ebook Reader
vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 604
Karma: 3205128
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View
Sometimes I wonder if these people aren't being paid to say things like this about Amazon. Look at how many other ereaders that either have or will have 3g connections, and will be doing the same thing (Apple, for one). And if you really want to get paranoid, go read the "Terms and Conditions" from just about anything else. People, get a life!
vaughnmr is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:26 PM   #30
gastan
Addict
gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 219
Karma: 801624
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US Pacific Northwest
Device: LePan II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas777 View Post
It also allowes disgruntled employees some fun:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Disgr...m-137854.shtml
Any system that is open to being abused will one day be abused, whether it's by your boss, your politicians, or merely your disgruntled boyfriend/girlfriend. People need to remember that and act accordingly. My response is to try and give them as little as I can and to fight any erosion of individual rights however I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
For my part, I see no particular cause for concern. YMMV. But if you're worried about this, I will say you are going to find it harder and harder to deal with an increasingly interconnected world, let alone fill out your census form.
Your reasoning seems to be that there is already a ton of info "out there" so we may as well just give up and let them have the rest. Forget privacy? Forget (for U.S. residents) the 4th and 5th amendments? Forget the 1st amendment? (it won't mean a thing to have "free speech" if people become afraid to use it when everything is stored "in the cloud")

You (and others) see no cause for concern? There are legions of historical examples to prove you wrong. Your attitudes of It Can't Happen Here will serve the next purveyors of dystopia very well. I suspect you were a mere babe in 1984 so welcome to the Brave New World.

Last edited by gastan; 03-22-2010 at 08:33 PM.
gastan is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kindle Privacy readingaloud Amazon Kindle 29 04-13-2012 04:03 AM
Kindle Privacy softshell Amazon Kindle 38 09-27-2010 02:09 PM
Reader privacy KNI Which one should I buy? 19 08-23-2010 06:32 PM
Privacy best Reader rabbie General Discussions 39 07-18-2010 04:30 PM
For Those Of You Worried About Privacy... Xanthe General Discussions 21 03-29-2010 08:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:18 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.