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Old 01-06-2010, 12:43 PM   #166
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Didn't Mr. Jobs publicly state somewhere recently that nobody reads books these days, and therefore Apple had no interest in eBooks?
And if you believe everything a marketing person says, I have 300,000 gallon parcel of land east of Miami I can sell you to make your vacation dreams come true!
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:54 PM   #167
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You'd not suggesting that Mr. Jobs would say something that wasn't true, are you? Why, I'm shocked. Shocked to the core .
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:59 PM   #168
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You'd not suggesting that Mr. Jobs would say something that wasn't true, are you? Why, I'm shocked. Shocked to the core .
I'm never going to unload that land I bought.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:15 PM   #169
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Can we give the myth of e-ink displays being better for ereaders a rest?

LED backlit LCDs are excellent displays for reading and produce no flicker and thus none of the 'eyestrain' so frequently mentioned in this forum. LED backlit LCDs would produce less eyestrain than e-ink readers because they produce their own uniform, optimized (and adjustable) lighting level where e-ink readers rely on on uneven external lighting or force reading in sub-optimum lighting conditions.
Except that despite numerous industry studies 'proving' this, *real* users have reported the eyestrain too often to count. E-ink *IS* more restful on the eyes.

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Old 01-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #170
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Except that despite numerous industry studies 'proving' this, *real* users have reported the eyestrain too often to count. E-ink *IS* more restful on the eyes.

Derek
OK, once again to dispel the myth...those studies were related to CCFL backlit LCDs which do flicker and can cause side-effects (some people are immune, some very susceptible). But the new LED backlit LCD devices (iPhone, IPod Touch, Blackberry Storm, HTC handhelds, Archos tablest, etc.) do NOT flicker. They produce a perfectly static, high-contrast display at an optimized brightness level that have NEVER been shown in any study to cause eyestrain.

That means perpetuating the 'e-ink is better because it doesn't cause eyetstrain' argument based on old studies about old technology means you are perpetuating a myth. In fact e-ink could produce more eyestrain than the new LED backlit LCD devices because it is NOT always illuminated at the perfect level and thus the old adage your mother told you is still correct with e-ink displays: "Turn a light on when you're reading or you'll go blind."
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:50 PM   #171
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The bigger point is that studies really don't matter--I cringe saying that as an academic and a researcher!

In this case, all that matters is a person's own experience. If a person can read on LCD with not experiencing eye fatigue etc., then that's all that matters to them.

What screen is best for a person is a factor of what they need to do with the device and how THEIR eyes respond to different screen types.

So from that stand point there is no one "best" screen type for e-reading, and it's great that there are different options out there so everyone can find something that suits them.

I love my kindle, but eye strain has nothing to do with it. I very, very, seldom read for more than an hour a day, so it's a moot issue for me.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #172
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I'll take that bet! I think soon ebooks will become just one more tab in iTunes, like Music, Podcasts, Movies, TV Shows, Audiobooks, and UTunes.
I'd like you to be right, but I doubt it. Still, given that some reports have eBooks and ebook readers the flavor of the moment at CES, Apple may be reconsidering.

I don't expect them to offer a dedicated reader, but they may mention ebooks as an application the tablet is good for.

We'll see when it surfaces. Given how niche market tablets have been thus far, I'll be curious to see what spin Apple puts on one.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #173
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I don't expect them to offer a dedicated reader, but they may mention ebooks as an application the tablet is good for.
100% they'll mention it as one of many things it can do. And probably focus a lot on newspapers and magazines as that's what it will do better than smaller devices and e-ink (at least mags since they need color).

I think they'll mention that a good bit. Show it off as a great web browser--with the ability to do HD streaming video etc.--making Netbooks not very useful (assuming you already have a full fledged laptop/PC at home for keyboard required tasks). And show off a bunch of Apps for various things to show all the different stuff it can do, and the endless possibilities with the app store.

Not that I necessarily think it will be great at doing all that stuff, but that's the spin I anticipate.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:03 PM   #174
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You'd not suggesting that Mr. Jobs would say something that wasn't true, are you? Why, I'm shocked. Shocked to the core .
I'm sure Steve may have thought it was true. The most common mistake I think anybody makes is assuming they are representative. Steve no longer reads books, therefore no one else (will, maybe a tiny minority, but certainly not enough to be worth Apple's while to cater to) does.

I still think the dedicated reader market isn't currently large enough to tempt Apple to make a device. They'd want iPod/iPhone numbers and I don't see that happening.

Who knows? They might actually mention reading ebooks as a use case for the rumored Apple tablet when it's released.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:06 PM   #175
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Again, they'll definitely mention it. A lot of the iTablet rumors were from Apple approaching newspapers and magazines.

The market is too small for them to make a dedicated reader--Jobs is right that no body reads when compared to how many people listen to music, watch movies, watch TV etc. at least. I think that's more of what he meant. No dedicated reader will ever sell near the amount the iPod does.

So yeah, it makes no sense for them to put out a dedicated reader given their focus on the mainstream with their gadgets. But it would make no sense not to at last tout reading as one of the many things the iTablet can do. The whole point is that it can do a lot of stuff, so they'll definitely focus some on the reading aspect when they announce it. The question is how much focus they give that aspect.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:18 PM   #176
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100% they'll mention it as one of many things it can do. And probably focus a lot on newspapers and magazines as that's what it will do better than smaller devices and e-ink (at least mags since they need color).
I hope you're right, though I don't see an Apple tablet impacting sales of dedicated readers. It targets a different market.

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I think they'll mention that a good bit. Show it off as a great web browser--with the ability to do HD streaming video etc.--making Netbooks not very useful (assuming you already have a full fledged laptop/PC at home for keyboard required tasks). And show off a bunch of Apps for various things to show all the different stuff it can do, and the endless possibilities with the app store.

Not that I necessarily think it will be great at doing all that stuff, but that's the spin I anticipate.
I think you're probably on target. I don't really see it competing with most netbooks, either. I know a fair number of folks who have them, and what they wanted was a smaller, lighter device they could carry instead of a laptop that would handle, say, 80% of what their laptop did. But that 80% included things like email that required a keyboard.

Stuff that requires a quick machine that can do web browsing and media viewing/playing are good use cases - folks can read news on line, surf web sites, play music, and look at pictures and watch video. I suspect the single largest use for this will be YouTube.

If you do need a keyboard the equation changes. I wonder what options will emerge for adding one, either by USB cable or Bluetooth or the like.

The other big question is how many folks will carry one around, and why. Dedicated readers and netbooks are wins precisely because they are portable, and people toss them in a briefcase, shoulder bag or the like and take them along when they go places.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:22 PM   #177
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The market is too small for them to make a dedicated reader--Jobs is right that no body reads when compared to how many people listen to music, watch movies, watch TV etc. at least. I think that's more of what he meant. No dedicated reader will ever sell near the amount the iPod does.
Exactly. Apple needs iPod/iPhone numbers to make it worth doing, and they won't get that from a dedicated reader.

Everybody listens to music/makes phone calls, so Apple music palyers and cell phones have a huge market to address. Everybody doesn't read books.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:28 PM   #178
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I hope you're right, though I don't see an Apple tablet impacting sales of dedicated readers. It targets a different market.
Agreed. I've said repeatedly I don't think Tablets will have much impact on the dedicated reader market. They're pretty different markets, with a little overlap, and plenty of room for both type of devices.

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I think you're probably on target. I don't really see it competing with most netbooks, either. I know a fair number of folks who have them, and what they wanted was a smaller, lighter device they could carry instead of a laptop that would handle, say, 80% of what their laptop did. But that 80% included things like email that required a keyboard.

Stuff that requires a quick machine that can do web browsing and media viewing/playing are good use cases - folks can read news on line, surf web sites, play music, and look at pictures and watch video. I suspect the single largest use for this will be YouTube.
That's definitely fair. For me, I already have a laptop which takes care of the keyboard needed tasks.

A netbook is useless to me as I want some smaller, lighter gadget for web surfing--and for heavy use for video. ESPN360, Hulu, YouTube...and yes porn of course! Every netbook I've tried couldn't handle video pretty much at all, especially HD video.

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The other big question is how many folks will carry one around, and why. Dedicated readers and netbooks are wins precisely because they are portable, and people toss them in a briefcase, shoulder bag or the like and take them along when they go places.
I seldom carry anything around--I'll take my kindle and laptop on multi-day trips, but that's the only time they leave the house.

But a tablet device should easily be as portable as a netbook--should be about the same dimensions and weight roughly I'd think. So people that carry a netbook around and don't use the keyboard much could sub a tablet--especially if they needed the added multimedia power which netbooks lack to watch TV shows on the go etc.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:34 PM   #179
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I see ebook readers being the "netbook" of the tablet realm. There will be more cutting-edge tablets for broad usage, and then there will be the extra-thin and extra-light class of tablets that will have lower spec, produce less heat, and have longer battery life that will continue to be marketed as "reader" devices. They'll still be multifunctional but may not offer the same degree of utility or multimedia performance as full-scale tablets.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:09 PM   #180
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I don't expect them to offer a dedicated reader, but they may mention ebooks as an application the tablet is good for.
Dennis
I agree it won't be a dedicated ereader, it will be a multifunction device. And that is exactly what I'm hoping to use it for...some reading some surfing, a few notes, a couple mind-numbing time-wasting games, access to Wikipedia and other references, some email responses, a little music, a few videos, and some more reading. I'm one of the many that would choose a multifuntion ereader over a dedicated device (I hear the gasps and calls to 'burn the witch' already).
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