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Old 10-15-2009, 04:08 PM   #31
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Anybody else notice that both people have the same complaint? "It doesn't work on my platform" really means "I have an older setup and I don't want to upgrade." So no, newer toys won't always work!
Actually I'm not complaining.... because I don't own any Mac products all my equipment works and I'm fully satisfied I'm must calling bull on Mac an their fan boys claim that "It Just Works" is not true by giving an example.

And if you read my original post you'll see that you're solution is the same as any Mac enthusiast ... "Just buy a new Mac".


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Old 10-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #32
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On the subject of iTunes and Windows - I haven't had much trouble either, but I do know this - using Apple products on Windows is about the same as using Microsoft's products on Apple. They both try to force their native APIs onto an alien system with mixed results at best.

The other basic problem that some Windows users have with Apple products is that they are used to having to configure everything and have come to assume that that is what they want. Something that eliminates customization in order to make things easier just frustrates them.

(I say this as someone who has Windows 7 already installed on his Macbook.)

You pay attention to what something is rather than demanding that it behave the way you think it should. You might be pleasantly surprised.

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Old 10-15-2009, 05:04 PM   #33
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On the subject of iTunes and Windows - I haven't had much trouble either, but I do know this - using Apple products on Windows is about the same as using Microsoft's products on Apple. They both try to force their native APIs onto an alien system with mixed results at best.

The other basic problem that some Windows users have with Apple products is that they are used to having to configure everything and have come to assume that that is what they want. Something that eliminates customization in order to make things easier just frustrates them.

(I say this as someone who has Windows 7 already installed on his Macbook.)

You pay attention to what something is rather than demanding that it behave the way you think it should. You might be pleasantly surprised.
You have a very good point. In this respect I am "bi" - I have owned a couple of Apple computers, and several more Windows PCs, and it's my experience, too. You can't do exactly what you're used to on the other platform. It's different expectations, different ways of doing things, and most importantly, different strenghts. It's not 1:1.

I run Windows in a VM on my iMac for trying put Windows things and developing in .NET. However, much of the daily stuff; checking email, accessing Internet, updating calender, etc. is a smoother experience on OS X.

I can't stay with MacOS forever, because staying forever with only one solution means you''ll be "brainwashed" - either Window or Mac (or Linux) will do that to you - the reason I changed from Windows to Mac the two preivious times.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:12 PM   #34
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Anybody else notice that both people have the same complaint? "It doesn't work on my platform" really means "I have an older setup and I don't want to upgrade." So no, newer toys won't always work!
I'm not complaining, it was only a remark about "iTunes always works in Windows". And I don't need to upgrade, iTunes goes along with my netbook
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:49 PM   #35
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Apple, and all its products represent a triumph of form over functionality. If you value functionality stay clear of them.
I have both an Nokia n810 & and a new Ipod Touch, and there's no comparision between them as ebook readers, the Ipod Touch is vastly better. GoodReader is a gem of a program, and between that and Bookshelf, I have a much easier time reading everything from recipes to novels. I'd love a larger screen, but that is my only complaint.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:58 PM   #36
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I've heard Palm should work well - after all it's developed directly for a mobile device. I just had the bad luck of getting Windows Mobile.


But you can't use a Windows Mobile PDA as real computer either. You need a real computer for that - not the crippled Windows Mobile interface.

You're obviously a Microsoft fanboy since you paint everyone who even dares to like the experience of an Apple interface, as Apple fanboys/girls

I can't understand how you could stand your Windows Mobile PDA.
I suffered enough typing with a tiny pen on a minuscule keyboard. I suffered enough waiting for the f****** device to start up applications- and then saving it - and the Dell Axim 51 was a decent device. I suffered enough non-working syncing (Microsoft: sorry, we can't do it better - better luck next time). I suffered enough general lack of functionality. Windows Mobile 5.0 was pure hell. Perhaps that's why I like the iPhone OS - *anything* is an improvement Have you thought about that, Hans?


Oooh, count me in! Count me in! Me stoopid, too
Tiny pens on miniscule keyboards?? You never installed a download (they are even free), you have a choice of dozens of wonderful keyboards with keys big enough for any finger. Some like TouchPal are extremely innovative (4 characters on one key) and much faster than the iphone's. And you can buy a device with a physical keyboard. Of course, we must be comparing devices of a size 3.5". Can't compare the on-screen keyboard of a 2.6" to an iphone's 3.5". I know the Axim is 3.5", and remember that came a full 5 years before the iphone! You can actually even have WM 6.5 on the Axim. Sorry for your syncing problems, I never had these. And as you can see from this post, some Iphone users with Windows suffer through the same (I never had any problems here, either).

Sure, WM has its problems. Fully agree with you. If you take one of the older phones (before HTC, Samsung and others installed their interfaces) could be torture. You had to tweak it to your needs first. It was a canvas, for you to work on. I wish upgrades where as easy as the iphones (if you don't jailbreak) and the interface can be clunky at times. But you can easily turn it into anything you like. Takes some tweaking, yes. A WM phone can be slow if you keep too many apps open -- but remember, you cannot keep any non-Apple apps open on an iphone.

WM is far from perfect. But it is still way ahead of the iphone in what you can do with it, if you are willing to invest some time in tweaking it. Of course, what the iphone can do may be enough for a lot of people, then it is a fine phone. For me, now with my second phone (a WM with a physical keyboard broke down 2 months ago and I am waiting for some new models) out of action, being exclusively on the iphone for 2 months on and off work it has been a never ending excercise in frustration. Instant messaging problems, contact management problems, waiting for apps to open and close (yes, if you multitask on the iphone it is a real snail), bluetooth limitations, no real control over it from my PC, you name it. So I was just ranting off.

Great if people are happy with their iphones. But to say that the iphone is much superior to other WM or Symbian? Let us be fair. Easier to learn, yes. But less capable and much less flexible.

And just FYI, my definition of an iphone fanboy is not somebody who likes his iphone. It is someone who goes into a discussion of a new WM or Symbian phone and says "it doesn't have a capacitive screen like my iphone" or "it doesn't scroll as smoothly as the iphone" or something. Or who claims that the iphone's technology is years ahead of the competition.

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Old 10-15-2009, 09:37 PM   #37
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Hmmm let's see my MacBook Pro will shutdown in 5 seconds and come out of suspend in 5 seconds. I can cold boot it and perform productive work in 35 seconds. That's faster then my work Windows XP laptop will come out of suspend (and about 1 times out of 20 it doesn't and I have to cold boot). It takes me at least 12 minutes to cold boot my work laptop and start doing anything and that's debatable because the hard drive runs flat out for at least another 5 minutes.

If it have to run a critical windows patch with less then 30 minutes until my next meeting I can't risk it because it's doubtful my workstation will be back up and running.

During the last week on vacation I've been reliably using my music player to read my email, browse the internet and check the weather. Clearly an instance of style over substance.

You wouldn't know it by this post but I'm actually very critical of Apple but this thread is way off base. For 95% of the people out there Apple products work very reliably and are a much better computing experience then the alternatives. I don't hesitate to recommend them.

I really really REALLY want to like LINUX but it too much of a pain in the ass. I deal with computer problems all day and the last thing I want to do at the end of the day is spend another 2 hours reading howto's on dependencies everytime I want to install a new application.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:39 PM   #38
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The new version of iTunes only can work at Windows XP SP2 or upper. In my case, I've no problem because I bought a netbook this year, and it runs XP, but in my desktop (W2000) and laptop (XP SP 1) I can't use it. Yes, I've got relics I know, but what am I going to do? They work.
A lot of folks (especially musicians who do their work in Windows) have stayed with or returned to XP because it's considered to be a more stable platform than Vista, so don't feel bad about your "relics". You're in good company.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:55 PM   #39
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Hmmm let's see my MacBook Pro will shutdown in 5 seconds and come out of suspend in 5 seconds. I can cold boot it and perform productive work in 35 seconds. That's faster then my work Windows XP laptop will come out of suspend (and about 1 times out of 20 it doesn't and I have to cold boot). It takes me at least 12 minutes to cold boot my work laptop and start doing anything and that's debatable because the hard drive runs flat out for at least another 5 minutes.
Interesting that you find more value in turning on and off you computer than the actual experience in between.

Okay seriously the lag really is more related to all the bootup scripts and shutdown script coporates put on your system than actual OS and Hardware i have both a Linux box and a Windows box that shutdown/start in that time. However my work Laptop takes around the same amount of time you quoted.

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For 95% of the people out there Apple products work very reliably and are a much better computing experience then the alternatives. I don't hesitate to recommend them.
Honestly I think if you threw up a Windows/Mac/Linux box most people will be okay with any of those system because most folks use PC to surf the web, check email, and write documents. As far as "better computing experience" I think that is way to opinionated to make such a claim.

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I really really REALLY want to like LINUX but it too much of a pain in the ass. I deal with computer problems all day and the last thing I want to do at the end of the day is spend another 2 hours reading howto's on dependencies everytime I want to install a new application.
You'd be Amazed how easy Linux is to install. It has far surpassed the Windows in ease to install. Just yesterday I installed Linux on my sons PC and it took 5min to start the install by the time I came back the OS was already installed. Unless you have some odd ball configuration or hardware the install process is seamless. I'd recommend Ubuntu 9.10

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Old 10-16-2009, 06:02 AM   #40
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Tiny pens on miniscule keyboards?? You never installed a download (they are even free), you have a choice of dozens of wonderful keyboards with keys big enough for any finger. Some like TouchPal are extremely innovative (4 characters on one key) and much faster than the iphone's. And you can buy a device with a physical keyboard. Of course, we must be comparing devices of a size 3.5". Can't compare the on-screen keyboard of a 2.6" to an iphone's 3.5". I know the Axim is 3.5", and remember that came a full 5 years before the iphone! You can actually even have WM 6.5 on the Axim. Sorry for your syncing problems, I never had these. And as you can see from this post, some Iphone users with Windows suffer through the same (I never had any problems here, either).

Sure, WM has its problems. Fully agree with you. If you take one of the older phones (before HTC, Samsung and others installed their interfaces) could be torture. You had to tweak it to your needs first. It was a canvas, for you to work on. I wish upgrades where as easy as the iphones (if you don't jailbreak) and the interface can be clunky at times. But you can easily turn it into anything you like. Takes some tweaking, yes. A WM phone can be slow if you keep too many apps open -- but remember, you cannot keep any non-Apple apps open on an iphone.

WM is far from perfect. But it is still way ahead of the iphone in what you can do with it, if you are willing to invest some time in tweaking it. Of course, what the iphone can do may be enough for a lot of people, then it is a fine phone. For me, now with my second phone (a WM with a physical keyboard broke down 2 months ago and I am waiting for some new models) out of action, being exclusively on the iphone for 2 months on and off work it has been a never ending excercise in frustration. Instant messaging problems, contact management problems, waiting for apps to open and close (yes, if you multitask on the iphone it is a real snail), bluetooth limitations, no real control over it from my PC, you name it. So I was just ranting off.
I hardly got to install any third-party apps on the PDA, because ActiveSync hardly ever worked. But basically, I just wanted a PDA that could do calendar, notes, email, a little bit of surfing, reading, music and video. My Touch can do that right out of the box - whyever should I buy something that requires me to invest extra time in in order to get it to do what I want in the first place? Why shouldn't I expect the PDA to come with a decent interface? Having to install a third-party app to get a decent keybord?

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And just FYI, my definition of an iphone fanboy is not somebody who likes his iphone. It is someone who goes into a discussion of a new WM or Symbian phone and says "it doesn't have a capacitive screen like my iphone" or "it doesn't scroll as smoothly as the iphone" or something. Or who claims that the iphone's technology is years ahead of the competition.
I haven't seen any Mac fanboys in this thread, but you ranted off as if anyone who dared to say that a Mac can be a positive experience was stupid fanboys. Honestly, you sounded like a Microsoft fanboy as per your own definition. As you know, fanboys can be quite annoying
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:08 AM   #41
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I hardly got to install any third-party apps on the PDA, because ActiveSync hardly ever worked. But basically, I just wanted a PDA that could do calendar, notes, email, a little bit of surfing, reading, music and video. My Touch can do that right out of the box - whyever should I buy something that requires me to invest extra time in in order to get it to do what I want in the first place? Why shouldn't I expect the PDA to come with a decent interface? Having to install a third-party app to get a decent keybord?


I haven't seen any Mac fanboys in this thread, but you ranted off as if anyone who dared to say that a Mac can be a positive experience was stupid fanboys. Honestly, you sounded like a Microsoft fanboy as per your own definition. As you know, fanboys can be quite annoying
I was letting of some steam after months of frustration being stuck with the iphone. Sad thing is, it just can't do so many things I was used of doing with a phone for years. Not really a pro WM rant, but rather a "being-fed up-with-the-iphone" rant. So thanks, I have to decline the invitation to the WM fanboy club . If I was that, I would never have bought an iphone, right?

You have a valid point about the better keyboard not being included, since these are free I don't see that as a negative. It took Apple a full year (until 3.0) to finally give us a landscape keyboard and it still doesn't work in 3rd party apps. Makes typing real slow with those small keys. And this really gets to the basic difference -- with the iphone you get what you get and that is it. If you like it great, if you need more, then Flexibility or simplicity. Times have changed a lot since the Axim, anyway.

Besides, you don't need to synchronize to install new programs in WM. Download the cab file, load it on an expansion card and run it from there. Or just use the phone as a hard disk. Or use one of those free programs on your computer that let you use your computer keyboard and screen to control the phone. Just a tip in case you haven't thrown that old device against the wall yet

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Old 11-04-2009, 12:11 PM   #42
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I have been exclusively using Macs for 5 years and I own (and love) an iPhone since Summer 2008. I'm also a happy MobileMe subscriber. I really can't understand the bias against Apple. Apple has been driving the computer industry for over 20 years and is greatly responsible for the way music is sold nowadays. Apple is also responsible for all the great multitouch smartphones that are currently available. Android, WebOS, multitouch screens, none of that would exist if it wasn't for the iPhone. So I think some respect for that company is more than appropriate.

The iPhone OS is no anarchy. There is no multitasking, no background processes and applications can only be obtained through the App Store. All of this has its valid pros and cons. More importantly, all of this is well-known. So if anyone buys an iPhone and then bitches about these design decisions: STFU! A quick look on the internet would have revealed that information before buying the phone.

About the feature set of the iPhone: Everything the iPhone is capable of is incredibly easy to use. Surveys show that most iPhone users interact with at least 10 apps on a regular basis including emailing and surfing. Studies also show that most users of so-called feature phones don't use many of the included features such as Bluetooth stuff and so on. It's simply too complicated to be useful. A recent study also showed that only users of Apple and HTC handhelds are mostly satisfied; most of the other smartphone owners are unhappy with their devices and wouldn't buy them again.

The main reason for Apple's success it that its design process is based on the user and not on the specification sheet. It's not about how many features you can cramp into a device; it's about how to make them usable.

I am really excited about what the new iPad might be and what it might be capable of. Rumors indicate it could be Apples entry into the eBook market.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:12 PM   #43
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Why should things be a case of either/or ... apple/pc???

Heck, I just love gadgets!

Also looking foward to seeing Apple's take on an Internet tablet - exciting mobile times ahead methinks.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:01 AM   #44
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I have been exclusively using Macs for 5 years and I own (and love) an iPhone since Summer 2008. I'm also a happy MobileMe subscriber. I really can't understand the bias against Apple. Apple has been driving the computer industry for over 20 years and is greatly responsible for the way music is sold nowadays. Apple is also responsible for all the great multitouch smartphones that are currently available. Android, WebOS, multitouch screens, none of that would exist if it wasn't for the iPhone. So I think some respect for that company is more than appropriate.
Yeah, sure Apple invented everytihng
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The iPhone OS is no anarchy. There is no multitasking, no background processes and applications can only be obtained through the App Store. All of this has its valid pros and cons.
Well, all this closeness is the reason i will not be buying an iPod. Had my share of it with my old sony, who requiered a software to put music on my player. Never again !

While the iPhone is a nice device on some point, it's "cons" makes it a no go for me. And well, i don't need that much power, would be a waste of money.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:09 AM   #45
JSWolf
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Originally Posted by EowynCarter View Post
Yeah, sure Apple invented everytihng

Well, all this closeness is the reason i will not be buying an iPod. Had my share of it with my old sony, who requiered a software to put music on my player. Never again !

While the iPhone is a nice device on some point, it's "cons" makes it a no go for me. And well, i don't need that much power, would be a waste of money.
Why is it that Apple foces you to use iTunes to have to load music onto your iPod? And when someone figure out how to load music, Apple goes and creates a new firmware to change how music is installed. There is no need to be so closed. This is just really silly.
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