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Old 10-09-2009, 02:15 PM   #46
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Well, I think that if a candidate makes family values a part of his or her campaign, then when that candidate does something that shows they don't live their values, then they deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. However, if a family member does something that is outside the values of the candidate, then it should still be off limits. I have had embarrassing moments with both my kids, but I don't have control over them.
I agree. I've told my oldest daughter, my youngest is far too young, that abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control. Let's face it, an unplanned pregnancy is much more life altering for the woman than the man. As a parent, I have done all that I can by promoting my position and hoping that she will heed my advice. If she chooses to ignore this statistic, all I can do is support and advise her in the next decisions that she will have to make and give her all the love she needs. It is my opinion that is what the Palin family did. For a further point of clarification, the Palin daughter was 18. When I was 18, I was headstrong and opinionated but lacked the wisdom and experience that I've gained in the last few decades of life. I have since apologized profusely to my mother and father for many of the mistakes that I made in my inexperienced youth (at least for those they know about ). I would have been completely unequiped to handle an unplanned pregnancy.
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:34 PM   #47
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... support and advise her in the next decisions that she will have to make and give her all the love she needs. It is my opinion that is what the Palin family did.
Here's what it looked like to someone who doesn't share your values:

A young lady was denied by her family the benefit of an education regarding contraceptives and who after becoming pregnant as a result of the ignorance inflicted on her by her parents was advised that her only option was to marry the boy who impregnated her. It didn't appear that she was given the knowledge she needed to prevent the pregnancy, nor the option after it occurred to either terminate it or not marry her boyfriend.

It just seems doubtful that her parents would have taken her to get birth control pills or support her if she chose to have an abortion. She had sex she was ill prepared for and was getting pushed in to a shotgun wedding.
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Old 10-09-2009, 03:28 PM   #48
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Here's what it looked like to someone who doesn't share your values:

A young lady was denied by her family the benefit of an education regarding contraceptives and who after becoming pregnant as a result of the ignorance inflicted on her by her parents was advised that her only option was to marry the boy who impregnated her. It didn't appear that she was given the knowledge she needed to prevent the pregnancy, nor the option after it occurred to either terminate it or not marry her boyfriend.

It just seems doubtful that her parents would have taken her to get birth control pills or support her if she chose to have an abortion. She had sex she was ill prepared for and was getting pushed in to a shotgun wedding.
Just because I suggest abstinence as the most effective birth control does not mean that the other forms of birth control were not discussed. Assuming that all people who present abstinance as a viaoble option don't discuss any of the other options is short-sighted. I don't assume that a more progressive parent would hand their child a box of condoms with the caveat to "have a good time". In either case, the parent would not have been doing the best for their child. As an educator and a parent, it is my job to be as informative as possible and to help my children make the best choices for them. I actually believe that a woman should have the right to make whatever choices are best for her, but do not advocate abortion as anything other than the absolute last resort. Abortion can be and is a very emotionally traumatic experience, even for those who feel it is their Right, and should not be an easy decision. Having said that, if my daughter came home and told me that that was her choice, I would respect it and support her.

If you are talking about the Palins, I believe that they eventually did allow her NOT to marry the father of her child and at no point was the "shotgun" scenario ever reported. In fact, the child's father has been happily riding his 15 minutes of fame to the point that, I feel, if that scenario had been presented, he would have shouted it from every talk show couch available. Frankly, if it had been my daughter and he the father of her child, I would have told her to chuck him out the door and make it on her own (with my help, of course) once his true character started spilling out into the press. I have a feeling that might be exactly what happened with the Palins.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:08 PM   #49
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If you are talking about the Palins...
I was talking about the Palins. You had pointed out that you shared some of the values expressed by Palin (e.g. abstinence is best for teenagers) and I was attempting to articulate that Palin's daughter's situation looked more sinister to someone who doesn't share her values. I hope you weren't offended, because that was not my intention. I apologize if that's what happened.

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... I believe that they eventually did allow her NOT to marry the father of her child...
Well, these days parents can't actually force marriage on their children (in this country, anyway), but given what we know about Palin's daughter and her ex-boyfriend it seems doubtful that the engagement was their idea, and given what we know about her views on abortion it seems doubtful that she would have supported her daughter in making that choice.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:48 PM   #50
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Just because I suggest abstinence as the most effective birth control does not mean that the other forms of birth control were not discussed.
Of course abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control, and I commend you for sharing that with your daughter. No one disputes that. But I also noticed that you implied that other forms of birth control were discussed. The problem with Palin is that she was on record as supporting the abstinence-only approach.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...1/1320417.aspx
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Old 10-10-2009, 02:44 AM   #51
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i can't believe there are people out there who would try to extort money from someone over details of their private life. unbelievable.
Zelda, it looks like Letterman has been sleeping with a number of employees for decades - very young women in college or recent graduates. Not only is that sleazy, it is illegal. Here in the US, it is considered sexual harassment, not a detail of one's private life as you suggest.

In the US there is currently a shortage of interview shows on the broadcast television networks. So candidates for the highest offices of the land stoop to being interviewed on midnight comedy shows such as Letterman's, where the conversation is rarely serious or intelligent.

Thus, it is particularly appalling that someone who interviews Presidential candidates has been using the casting couch for apparently 30 years.

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Old 10-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #52
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Of course abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control, and I commend you for sharing that with your daughter. No one disputes that. But I also noticed that you implied that other forms of birth control were discussed. The problem with Palin is that she was on record as supporting the abstinence-only approach.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...1/1320417.aspx
I would not agree with the abstinence only education plan, however, I feel that it is the parents' job to educate their children and that the school system should work as an extra resource. As I have already stated, I don't want someone handing my son and daughter a box of condoms or telling my daughter that if she were to get pregnant that abortion is a consideration without discussing it with her parents. Ultimately, it is best to find a median and work from there. As an educator, it seems that in the last decade, our job discription has grown to include character education, sex-ed, etc., areas that in the past had been predominantly done at home, although I will admit that most parents are uncomfortable discussing sex with their children. In my case, although my mother was a nurse and did explain the facts of life to me, I learned more from friends than I did from her. I was much more open with my children when it came to that discussion. Of course, my daughter explained that she already knew everything I was telling her but she appreciated my attempts. Young people today are much more wordly than I was at the same age and I can't imagine that Bristol Palin and her young man and had not been aware of alternative birth control methods. Regardless of Sarah Palin's views, the ultimate responsiblity fell to the two people involved. The fact that she became pregnant at the age of 18 should not have been fodder for late-night comedians or political pundits. These children made an error in judgement that will effect the rest of their lives and should have been left alone to deal with the magnitude of that change without being judged in the public arena.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:42 AM   #53
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I would not agree with the abstinence only education plan, however, I feel that it is the parents' job to educate their children and that the school system should work as an extra resource. As I have already stated, I don't want someone handing my son and daughter a box of condoms or telling my daughter that if she were to get pregnant that abortion is a consideration without discussing it with her parents. Ultimately, it is best to find a median and work from there. As an educator, it seems that in the last decade, our job discription has grown to include character education, sex-ed, etc., areas that in the past had been predominantly done at home, although I will admit that most parents are uncomfortable discussing sex with their children. In my case, although my mother was a nurse and did explain the facts of life to me, I learned more from friends than I did from her. I was much more open with my children when it came to that discussion. Of course, my daughter explained that she already knew everything I was telling her but she appreciated my attempts. Young people today are much more wordly than I was at the same age and I can't imagine that Bristol Palin and her young man and had not been aware of alternative birth control methods. Regardless of Sarah Palin's views, the ultimate responsiblity fell to the two people involved. The fact that she became pregnant at the age of 18 should not have been fodder for late-night comedians or political pundits. These children made an error in judgement that will effect the rest of their lives and should have been left alone to deal with the magnitude of that change without being judged in the public arena.
I think we're pretty much on the same page.
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Old 10-10-2009, 09:56 AM   #54
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To my mind, if a politician makes "family values" a political issue, then that makes THEIR family a "legitimate target" for the press when breaches of what that politician is propounding come to light. Especially when the family members are adults, as in this case.
But what if another family member has different views about family values?
Why should they become legitimate targets for the press any more than anyone else?
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Old 10-10-2009, 12:43 PM   #55
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I agree. I've told my oldest daughter, my youngest is far too young, that abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control.
Tell that to Mary of Nazareth. (sorry couldn't help myself).
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:58 PM   #56
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I wonder how much Mr. Letterman is laughing this morning ...
Letterman's not the only one! This picture of my great-niece appeared on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno a few years ago:



She says it was part of a skit.

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Old 10-12-2009, 04:35 AM   #57
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It is quite obvious from your posts that you tend to lean toward the liberal and that is fine, just as it is fine for me to stand firmly in the middle and to decide which way to lean based on the issues at hand.
It's all about perspective, personally I would class myself as being more in the middle, your stated opinions such as the news having a liberal bias and supporting abstince sex-ed actually put you quite firmly to the right of centre.
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:18 AM   #58
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It's all about perspective, personally I would class myself as being more in the middle, your stated opinions such as the news having a liberal bias and supporting abstince sex-ed actually put you quite firmly to the right of centre.
I would not agree that stating the news has a liberal bias would cement someone to the right of center. It all depends on what you're looking at. Talk radio is certainly weighted to the right while print media tends to lean to the left. Fox News made a strategic decision to court viewers from the right because Murdoch felt it was a large untapped market. Ratings at this point appear to have proven him correct. NBC, after watching Fox New's success, made a sharp turn to the left, hoping to capitalize on loyalty from the more liberal viewers. It is my opinion that the reason Fox New's has higher ratings than the other cable news shows is because they have little competition in serving the interest of conservative viewers while liberal viewers have more choices.

Anyway, there have been studies on media bias. Here is one by UCLA:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...UCLA-6664.aspx

You may not agree with this study and you may not agree with me, but you should show some care when classifying someone else as "quite firmly right of centre" based on supporting abstinence sex-ed and stating the media has bias. Perhaps this person also believes in a very progressive income tax, welfare programs, affirmative action and other such causes.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:06 AM   #59
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... you should show some care when classifying someone else as "quite firmly right of centre" based on supporting abstinence sex-ed and stating the media has bias. Perhaps this person also believes in a very progressive income tax, welfare programs, affirmative action and other such causes.
Such a person may exist, but they are quite rare. He or she would have to be socially conservative on some issues and socially liberal on others - in other words, s/he would possess no ideology. Socially and fiscally many people do not line up with the two main US parties (e.g. socially conservative fiscally liberal Dixiecrats and socially liberal fiscally conservative Libertarians), but that is not what we are talking about.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:10 AM   #60
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Such a person may exist, but they are quite rare. He or she would have to be socially conservative on some issues and socially liberal on others - in other words, s/he would possess no ideology. Socially and fiscally many people do not line up with the two main US parties (e.g. socially conservative fiscally liberal Dixiecrats and socially liberal fiscally conservative Libertarians), but that is not what we are talking about.
There are many Catholics that vote Democrat, believe in welfare programs for the poor, assisting minorities, but believe in abstinence only sex-ed. They also may have read some studies on the media and understand that a claim of media bias to the left is not without merit, such as the following report from pew research:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1001/campaign-media

It appears that when someone makes a claim that certain media outlets have a bias to the left, that person is often labeled as a right-leaning conservative. I would venture to guess, however, that quite a few independents understand that there have been studies that support the claim.
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