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Old 10-08-2009, 08:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by K-Thom View Post
Alex, take a look at the tags "censorship, international, islam, kindle, muslim". They imply a certain opinion by Amazon which aren't based on any real facts.

So, luqmaninbmore, why not ask Amazon first? They're the one I'd have to address this issue to. Especially if I really am taking it seriously. And they're the only one who will provide a substantial reply.
I thought those were the most appropriate tags under which to file this topic. They were not meant to express any type of conclusion. Kindle is obvious, as is international. Islam and muslim because the apparent pattern that I noticed involves the predominantly muslim countries and excludes non-muslim countries in the same region (i.e. all of South Asia has the kindle except for Bangladesh and Pakistan, large stretches of Africa have it, but not Muslim/Arab North Africa, etc.). And censorship because this may be due to censorship concerns. Again, I was just pointing out an apparent pattern that I noticed. I think it would be awesome to have whispernet when I visit relatives in Dubai (just like I can have it when I visit relatives in India).

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Old 10-08-2009, 08:41 AM   #32
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I am insulted with it. So what?
They hate America. They attacked it. American company ignores them. What is a big deal? What did they expect?
Am I wrong?
Who is "they?" Which Moroccans attacked America? Which Eritreans? Which Malaysians? Which Bangladeshis?
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dave Berk View Post
I think the reason is much more simple.

Amazon will probably start to provide books in french to French, in russian to Russia, in german to Germany, etc... But I don't think they can currently support right to left languages such as arabic in the kindle. So they have no reason to start investing in arabic speaking countries...
Now that seems to me to be a real possibility. That's one of things I like about my Sony vs. my Kindle, actually, that I can read Arabic on it. That would also explain why Israel (Hebrew) was left out. Although it is offered in Ethiopia; the dominant languages in Ethiopia are semitic, but I am unfamiliar with their script and so I cannot say whether they are right to left.

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Old 10-08-2009, 09:25 AM   #34
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Luqman, by only picking certain countries in certain areas you are doing what is often called "cherry picking", and is a result of observer bias.

Try listing every country by region where the International Kindle is unavailable before drawing any conclusions.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:28 AM   #35
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Luqman - what did Amazon say when you asked THEM about this?
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Luqman - what did Amazon say when you asked THEM about this?
I haven't heard back from them yet.

I'll keep y'all posted.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:10 AM   #37
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Looking at their international coverage map, there are entire swathes of Saudi that are included in Whispernet coverage. It also extends to Canada and some other countries where the Kindle is not currently sold. Is this indicative of an intention by Amazon to eventually sell to these countries, or is it just the range of coverage offered by their telecom partners?
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCeeEll View Post
Luqman, by only picking certain countries in certain areas you are doing what is often called "cherry picking", and is a result of observer bias.

Try listing every country by region where the International Kindle is unavailable before drawing any conclusions.
I not so sure he is cherry picking after looking at the countries they are available in. Although then again I don't think amazon is simply discriminating based on a country being populated by muslims.

having said that, it is pretty weird that amazon stops their product right at muslim countries.
case in point:
available in bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Armenia, Russia, Romania. Not available in Turkey and down to all the countries in the middle east.

Available in Philippines, Papau New Guinea, Australia, Cambodia, Taiwan, Timor, Fiji, Palau (small pacific islands etc) Not available in Malaysia and Indonesia. also not available in Thailand.

Available in Nepal, Myanmar, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, India. not available in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh. Also not available in China.

Available in Georgia, Russia, Mongolia. Not available in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan.

Available in Ethiopia, Uganda, Central African Republic, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Angola, Namibia, Congo, Gabon, Ethiopia, Mozambique etc (too long to search all). Not available in Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal. (all muslim dominant countries)

only major muslim populated country I can see that has kindle available is Bosnia and Herzegovina.

I'm not even going to list the Arab countries...
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The AT&T coverage map includes some of the countries excluded from receiving a Kindle. So perhaps this is due to ebook rights. AT&T coverage is in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and UAE for example. AT&T isn't available in Pakistan (not even for their standard international data plans), which would otherwise presumably be a big market for English language ebooks.
When did AT&T stop covering Pakistan? I was in Lahore in 2005 to attend a wedding and I had AT&T roaming.

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Old 10-08-2009, 10:26 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
Its not available in Canada either, and yes, I believe you are most certainly rushing to judgment.
+1

Amazon has a lot going for it, as does Kindle. Being an American capitalistic business, the only reason they wouldn't be selling it in every country in the world is that they're unable to. Either because of copyright issues, wireless coverage, or simply the inability to produce enough of them to satisfy global demand.

My opinion is that Amazon should set up Kindle sites for each country. If wireless is not really an option, sell a version without wireless for those countries (heck, even in the US!) and populate that country's library with books that are properly copyrighted for each country. Simple, but Amazon doesn't want to drop the wireless. That is currently their feature advantage over their competition.

When I bought my Kindle, I didn't think wireless was necessary. But it is one of those features that once you have it, you won't want to be without it again, especially if it is "free" or included in the purchase price of the device.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:34 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
They are prejudiced against Jews (not available in Israel), also against atheist (not available in communist china). I suspect there is another explanation than bias on their part. It is a serious accusation to jump without any data.
He does in fact have more data, which he explained in detail, than you have for the assumptions you are using to ridicule him.

It doesn't mean he is right... but he's not the idiot he's being made out to be. (As Lev's post further details.)

- Ahi
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ahi View Post
He does in fact have more data, which he explained in detail, than you have for the assumptions you are using to ridicule him.

It doesn't mean he is right... but he's not the idiot he's being made out to be. (As Lev's post further details.)

- Ahi
He is what he is and he knows it very well.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:18 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Topaz books are basically image scans, so they can display anything.
TOPAZ ebooks are based on a scan, but I have not seen any technical description of how they work from Amazon. From my observations of how TOPAZ ebooks display on the screen, they seem to contain an embedded font as bitmaps in six fixed sizes and the "font" is based on scans of the actual document (so some letters could appear twice if it does not scan well and the OCR software ends up with two canonical glyphs). This embedded font is then used for more or less conventional OCR transcription into "text".

So they do reflow, into six font sizes. However, since they are restricted to 6 sizes they could just as easily have been stored as six individual page sizes.

I don't know if TOPAZ supports right-to-left languages, all the TOPAZ ebooks I have seen are in English. Amazon did say "get English-language books in 60 seconds" at the end of their front page message. On the other hand they also say:
Quote:
Our vision for Kindle is to have every book ever printed, in any language, all available in under 60 seconds.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:22 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by astra View Post
He is what he is and he knows it very well.
Try and keep your ignorant prejudices out of this thread.

---

luqmaninbmore and lev, does the data present in this article make the anti-Muslim bias seem less acute?

- Ahi
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:48 AM   #45
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Try and keep your ignorant prejudices out of this thread.

---

luqmaninbmore and lev, does the data present in this article make the anti-Muslim bias seem less acute?

- Ahi
interesting article and yes that the misconception of Islam = arabs is unfortunately prevalent.

As to whether Amazon is biased on Muslim countries, I do not claim this to be so because of religion but there may be some other common issues that may be indirectly related such as censorship.

also obvious items such as Salman Rushdie's book or the Danish cartoon controversy may have made amazon policy makers re-think about how to handle such issues and may have deferred their launch until they sort it out. for example what will happen if you are subscribed to a magazine or newspaper that may have items that might be viewed as offensive to Muslims? Even though they are not directly responsible, there is a chance that their company may be targeted in such circumstances. having no control on the content of such items may have influenced their decision until they come up with a policy to handle such issues and not risk their global image. which I think is a legitimate concern for amazon.

Otherwise, as a corporation I do not believe Amazon will willingly limit their opportunity to make profit by discriminating against muslims. However, I also understand that they would want to protect their image of any problems that may arise because of such examples I gave.

having said all that, keep in mind that up until an hour ago i did not even think of such things and I do not want to rush in to judgements. Hence I want to point out that I may very well be wrong in my thinking.

Last edited by lev; 10-08-2009 at 11:58 AM.
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