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Old 08-17-2009, 03:25 PM   #31
JSWolf
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If it's not self-published, there is a contract. And that contract can be used to verify that the work is legit. It would only be works that do not have a contract that would be a problem.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
If it's not self-published, there is a contract. And that contract can be used to verify that the work is legit. It would only be works that do not have a contract that would be a problem.
Do you understand how many millions of books are in print? Also those contracts all expire at different times.

Not feasible.

In the case I'm familiar with (my own publishing company), the money made from Amazon is peanuts compared to how much we'd have to pay someone to fax every contract to Amazon.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:35 PM   #33
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Well.. something has to be done so the users don't get unauthorized editions with possibly dodgy formatting.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:09 PM   #34
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Amazon already has a fairly extensive database. Although it's far easier to describe than implement: they could add a few data fields to each book to indicate whether the book is in public domain, which publisher has the right to add an e-book version for that specific title, etc. Someone adds a book, the self-publishing system runs a query, and voila, book is either approved or disapproved, or perhaps flagged for a human to review.

That said, as long as Amazon pulls books and can revoke payments to the infringers, I doubt there are any serious lawsuits on the horizon.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
In the case I'm familiar with (my own publishing company), the money made from Amazon is peanuts compared to how much we'd have to pay someone to fax every contract to Amazon.
Not every individual contract--Amazon would (presumably) have a single contract with the publisher; submissions through that publisher would be the publisher's liability to verify.

It's the "self-published" works submitted through Amazon that need a more stringent confirmation process. And while Amazon certainly can't keep up with every single book ever published, it *could*, relatively easily, maintain a list of "5000 popular books not in the public domain" and check new submissions against those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
Amazon already has a fairly extensive database. Although it's far easier to describe than implement: they could add a few data fields to each book to indicate whether the book is in public domain, which publisher has the right to add an e-book version for that specific title, etc. Someone adds a book, the self-publishing system runs a query, and voila, book is either approved or disapproved, or perhaps flagged for a human to review.
No for-profit publisher or distributor has ever been willing to announce what content they provide is in the public domain; all the books are sold as "copyright by [publishing house]" even when the content is hundreds of years old.

Quote:
That said, as long as Amazon pulls books and can revoke payments to the infringers, I doubt there are any serious lawsuits on the horizon.
Ah, but Amazon has said, "We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances."
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:30 PM   #36
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Perhaps Amazon could implement a Google-type of indexing software. Every ebook is stored on an indexed server, and any books that are uploaded are randomly accessed for several paragraphs, which are them submitted to a search of their database. Regardless of the submitted name, author, genre, etc.. the server will come back and determine whether the passages of text are found in any other book. If so, more searches are done with the same book. they all come back the same, the book is denied.

It would take a lot to implement, I'm certain.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:35 PM   #37
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Really, that wouldn't be too bad to impliment. The hardest part would be getting the text into the database, which could be fairly well automated on existing ebooks, just being a bitch on books that are not available as ebooks. Even still with their tech, they can scan and OCR the text on those without too much hassle.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:41 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by griffonwing View Post
Perhaps Amazon could implement a Google-type of indexing software.
Perhaps they could just liscence google's book database..
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffonwing View Post
Perhaps Amazon could implement a Google-type of indexing software. Every ebook is stored on an indexed server, and any books that are uploaded are randomly accessed for several paragraphs, which are them submitted to a search of their database. Regardless of the submitted name, author, genre, etc.. the server will come back and determine whether the passages of text are found in any other book. If so, more searches are done with the same book. they all come back the same, the book is denied.

It would take a lot to implement, I'm certain.
I'm not so sure that's a good idea. Consider what would happen if Dan Brown's publisher uploaded his next novel. It would probably be rejected by the system because it was basically identical to his previous novel.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:16 PM   #40
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I'm not so sure that's a good idea. Consider what would happen if Dan Brown's publisher uploaded his next novel. It would probably be rejected by the system because it was basically identical to his previous novel.
Good Point!
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:20 PM   #41
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The Harry Potter books seem to be gone. I just did a search of Harry Potter at the Kindle Store and none of the books show up.

But what this goes to show is that this is really Amazon's fault. Amazon should stop allowing books to be published without first verifying them. Someday some author is going to find an authorized eBook on Amazon and sue them and win.
The only reasonable way to deal with this (since verifying every book uploaded is not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination) is to only deal with established publishers, or with distributors/wholesalers who only deal with established publishers.

But as I understand in a few more years there will be no more publishers, no more distributors, only westerners sitting on their asses at home editing each others' fan fiction until it is deemed ready for cloud-publishing by the collective conscious. So professionally published books not yet in the public domain will cease to be available altogether, and the problem will thus solve itself.

- Ahi
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by DawnFalcon View Post
Perhaps they could just liscence google's book database..
And do what with it?

Technology isn't magic.

What on earth would google's pitiably OCR'd database be useful for in this context?

If the book in question isn't in the database, it is either because:
- OCR errors are masking the fact that it is in the database.
- Google hasn't scanned the book yet.
- It is in a language that Google doesn't even plan to scan books for.
- It is a newly published book.

If the book is in the database, it is because:
- It is a public domain book already scanned.
- It is a still copyrighted book already scanned.
- It is a book that contains a large portion of a book in the database, but isn't identical to it, and its new portion (if it is unambiguously detected by the algorithm as being such) may or may not be copyrighted.

Not one of the above scenarios say a single damn thing about whether or not the particular user that uploaded the work has the legal right to do so or not.

And if you were suggesting combining the above highly unreliable method with an exhaustive international database of copyright ownership information, consider the fact that such a database almost certainly does not exist and changes daily on a scale that would make reasonably frequent updating prohibitively expensive to impossible.

Technology isn't magic. If you cannot figure out exactly how something could be done by a computer, sometimes it is because there is not reasonable/possible way for a computer to do it.

- Ahi
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:41 PM   #43
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Wow, ahi. It was only a possible suggestion of a way to 'eventually' take care of the problem. The technology is available, it just has yet to be implemented. It will take quite a while to do it. But it still is only a suggestion.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:47 PM   #44
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But as I understand in a few more years there will be no more publishers, no more distributors, only westerners sitting on their asses at home editing each others' fan fiction until it is deemed ready for cloud-publishing by the collective conscious.
- Ahi
Gosh, it must be wonderful to be you and able to have inside information about the future and everything. Everyone else must be so envious!!
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:26 PM   #45
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I think everybody here is missing something...

If this really was some pirate group playing havok with Amazon's System the books would be

a) perfectly proofed and formatted
b) free or at least almost free

What we have here is probably a prankster or somebody who thinks he's very clever and can make money ripping off Amazon and it's customers...you can say what you want about pirates, but they do have their standards and principles...and scamming people for money just does not fit the bill IMHO...
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