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Old 08-06-2009, 12:35 PM   #16
kovidgoyal
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You know, linux development is hard. Really hard. Not so much because of the software, but because of the users .
They're just getting warmed up. Wait till people running slightly unusual/older distros have problems. About 10-13% of calibre users are linux based, yet the number of complaints I get from linux users is a far higher percentage of the total.

Then periodically someone will write to me that they don't like Qt, could I please make a GTK based interface. Or that they don't like X, could I please rewrite everything to not depend on it. Or that a calibre package doesn't exist for their favorite obscure distro Y, could I please take the trouble to create one for it. Then there'll be complaints from smart asses convinced that they know more than you do and you could do no better than listen to them.

And since you've written Sigil in Qt you'll eventually start getting complaints from OS X people along the lines of, this doesn't look like other OS X apps, please rewrite the GUI specially for me.

In comparison I have to say that windows users are the most mature of the lot. The worst problems I get on windows are when some stupid AV program or the other prevents calibre from working on a users machine.

Certainly developing for linux users can be fun On the plus side, most serious code contributors to your project are likely to be running linux.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:15 PM   #17
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:16 PM   #18
kovidgoyal
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I should perhaps state that I'm a linux user myself
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #19
Valloric
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About 10-13% of calibre users are linux based, yet the number of complaints I get from linux users is a far higher percentage of the total.
I was amazed at how quickly I got people literally yelling at me in ALL CAPS in emails. Apparently providing a compiled binary for linux outside of a package like deb or rpm is grounds for a hanging.

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Then periodically someone will write to me that they don't like Qt, could I please make a GTK based interface.


You should probably just say "It's OSS, feel free to make a GTK port" and be done with it.

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Linux users can think for themselves, Windows users will eat whatever you give them
So far I've only received kind words from Windows users. Can't say the same for Linux people, although they are the ones offering the most help, too.

It's a different culture I guess. The Windows people take what they can get, the Linux people will complain form dusk 'till dawn but are ready to contribute code to resolve it.

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I should perhaps state that I'm a linux user myself
I use both Windows and Linux, but I'm partial to my Windows machine. Linux has many things going for it: usability, unfortunately, is not one of them.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:04 PM   #20
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Linux users can think for themselves, Windows users will eat whatever you give them
[Taps microphone]
Hello? I'm Derek and I'm a Windows user.
[muted "Hellos" from the rest of the group]
I just wanted to say that it's been less than 60 seconds since the last time I used Windows. And I just found out that, as a Windows user, I cannot think for myself!
[Gasps from the group]
What I want to know is, is there an OS out there which EXACTLY duplicates the functionality, UI, ease-of-use and complete integration with the BillG/Micro$lut World Domination Plan made by a responsible OS developer? One that can run ALL my M$ apps without needing to recompile, restructure or *RELEARN* all the UIs?



Derek
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by delphidb96 View Post
[Taps microphone]
Hello? I'm Derek and I'm a Windows user.
[muted "Hellos" from the rest of the group]
I just wanted to say that it's been less than 60 seconds since the last time I used Windows. And I just found out that, as a Windows user, I cannot think for myself!
[Gasps from the group]
What I want to know is, is there an OS out there which EXACTLY duplicates the functionality, UI, ease-of-use and complete integration with the BillG/Micro$lut World Domination Plan made by a responsible OS developer? One that can run ALL my M$ apps without needing to recompile, restructure or *RELEARN* all the UIs?



Derek

With or without the various bugs, crashes, viruses, malware, et al?

(Sorry Valloric, for going off-topic. I just couldn't resist the quip...)
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:42 PM   #22
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With or without the various bugs, crashes, viruses, malware, et al?

(Sorry Valloric, for going off-topic. I just couldn't resist the quip...)
*WITH*, of course! (That way it'll remind me of the Cybook Gen3 firmware. )

Derek
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:32 AM   #23
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The easiest way, of course, is to tell ppl who have the overwhelming desire for GTK interfaces is to tell them to port it themselves, i.e. make their own GTKSigil project.
As for obscure distros I believe that managing the top 3 distros would do, and if they want support for their favourite rare distro, the answer again is to get them to port it themselves.
As for different processor executables, which is my big thing given I'm using AMD64, I'd be happy to compile for myself - but often the problem is guessing what depends are needed. I'm still to compile calibre and your calibre executable package, Kovid, is essentially i686 with every library needed compiled for i686 included and distributed via magical mystery script (bypassing the repositories). The Ubuntu repository people do succeed at porting calibre directly to AMD64 but they don't exactly keep up with the latest version of Calibre except during each Ubuntu release, which is usually months down the road and a long wait indeed. If a small feature is broken atm and assuming the repos version was broken too, it would be even more painful for a repository user.
They certainly whinge when it comes to OS X too (where style matters above substance!) except I no longer regularly use OS X and as such couldn't care less anymore. I encourage you to have the same attitude; you can't change the look of an application every five minutes! If they want it to look different, they can make their 'port' themselves IMHO.

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Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
They're just getting warmed up. Wait till people running slightly unusual/older distros have problems. About 10-13% of calibre users are linux based, yet the number of complaints I get from linux users is a far higher percentage of the total.

Then periodically someone will write to me that they don't like Qt, could I please make a GTK based interface. Or that they don't like X, could I please rewrite everything to not depend on it. Or that a calibre package doesn't exist for their favorite obscure distro Y, could I please take the trouble to create one for it. Then there'll be complaints from smart asses convinced that they know more than you do and you could do no better than listen to them.

And since you've written Sigil in Qt you'll eventually start getting complaints from OS X people along the lines of, this doesn't look like other OS X apps, please rewrite the GUI specially for me.

In comparison I have to say that windows users are the most mature of the lot. The worst problems I get on windows are when some stupid AV program or the other prevents calibre from working on a users machine.

Certainly developing for linux users can be fun On the plus side, most serious code contributors to your project are likely to be running linux.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:04 AM   #24
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Hello, my name is Derek and I use Windows and I have a Gen3 so yes, I cannot think and I do take what's given.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:51 PM   #25
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Oh yeah, my standard response is "feel the source"
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:07 PM   #26
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Hello, my name is Derek and I use Windows and I have a Gen3 so yes, I cannot think and I do take what's given.
Oh Geez! Cheez it fellas! The O-T Nazis have made their appearance!

Derek
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Old 08-07-2009, 03:04 PM   #27
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Oh Geez! Cheez it fellas! The O-T Nazis have made their appearance!

Derek
Godwin. It's time to get this thread back on track.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:25 PM   #28
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Godwin. It's time to get this thread back on track.
I see your Godwin and raise a Reductio ad Hitlerum!

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Old 08-08-2009, 01:41 PM   #29
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I see your Godwin and raise a Reductio ad Hitlerum!
But why??? I mean valloric is doing a GREAT JOB of improving Sigil and he's just going to start a new thread when he gets to v0.2 or v0.3 so why NOT go ad nauseum???
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:16 PM   #30
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[Taps microphone]
Hello? I'm Derek and I'm a Windows user.
[muted "Hellos" from the rest of the group]
I just wanted to say that it's been less than 60 seconds since the last time I used Windows. And I just found out that, as a Windows user, I cannot think for myself!
[Gasps from the group]
What I want to know is, is there an OS out there which EXACTLY duplicates the functionality, UI, ease-of-use and complete integration with the BillG/Micro$lut World Domination Plan made by a responsible OS developer? One that can run ALL my M$ apps without needing to recompile, restructure or *RELEARN* all the UIs?



Derek

No, but if you were a Linux user, you could develop one yourself.
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