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Old 05-18-2009, 11:02 AM   #1
estral
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If Amazon Were Microsoft, Would Kindle 2 Policies Be Tolerated?

Bear with me for a moment.

If Microsoft announced an eReader with the following policies, how would the ePublishing community react?

1. You do not purchase anything, all product is sold under a revokable license.
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.

If Microsoft did this the sereaming by the publishing and IT communities would be so loud as to be deafening. So why is everyone so quiet about Amazon's policies, which are the ones listed above?

Beats me, any thoughts.

Uncle Eric
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #2
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Microsoft is in a monopoly position, with a headlock on the market. Amazon is a company with many competitors, who by no means controls the market. If you don't like Amazon's practices, or their prices, you can go elsewhere.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
Bear with me for a moment.

If Microsoft announced an eReader with the following policies, how would the ePublishing community react?

1. You do not purchase anything, all product is sold under a revokable license.
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.

If Microsoft did this the sereaming by the publishing and IT communities would be so loud as to be deafening. So why is everyone so quiet about Amazon's policies, which are the ones listed above?

Beats me, any thoughts.

Uncle Eric

These 3 policies largely match those of Microsoft licenses to bulk business users and PC manufacturers.
1. You purchase licenses for each workstation in your business to use the software.
2. PC manufacturers can't load other OS's if they want to ship OEM loaded PCs with Windows.
3. Microsoft updates can turn things off/on - or break them without telling you.

So - maybe Amazon copied Microsoft's lead - and is assuming a monopoly stance in the eBook world.

So, sadly, most consumers are used to this level of high-handed proprietary attitude.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:31 AM   #4
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Sounds like the Windows license.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
Bear with me for a moment.

If Microsoft announced an eReader with the following policies, how would the ePublishing community react?

1. You do not purchase anything, all product is sold under a revokable license.
Microsoft did try to do this with their XP platform. They first rolled out this model to the corporate world then planned on rolling out this license scheme to the consumer market. The corporate world respond by balking at any future upgrades. It was a disaster for Microsoft and they were force to return to their original model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.
Has this been proven? I know there are threads here that make that claim. But there has been no proof that amazon will disable a book already on a user's kindle.

As for your Microsoft question yes "Microsoft Genuine and automatic update"



Note I am not defending Amazon in the least but I believe that blame should be placed where it belongs. ALL of the issues you have listed above are imposed by the publishing companies. THEY require DRM and they also demanded TTS be disabled. Amazon is just complying with their demands. Sure Amazon is not a victim, but they are not the ones to blame directly.
Also issue number one is not exclusive to Amazon it applies to ANY eBook store that has DRM infested books.


Also I'm surprised you left out Amazons practice to disable customers account, which is strictly an Amazon policy.

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Old 05-18-2009, 11:50 AM   #6
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Microsoft is in a monopoly position, with a headlock on the market. Amazon is a company with many competitors, who by no means controls the market. If you don't like Amazon's practices, or their prices, you can go elsewhere.
Yup. I'll never get anywhere near the kindle for these reason. The choise is ours
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mitchll View Post
Microsoft is in a monopoly position, with a headlock on the market. Amazon is a company with many competitors, who by no means controls the market. If you don't like Amazon's practices, or their prices, you can go elsewhere.
Funny. I'm reading this page without anything from Microsoft.

Maybe if windows 7 is cheap when they get the bugs out I will try it.

Cheap net books with smooth Linux distributions are waking people up to the strides that Linux has made towards ease of use. Apple's resurgence hasn't been good for Microsoft either.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.
AFAIK there is no verifiable example of either of these things happening. (I'm guessing you don't mean discontinuing an experimental feature that was clearly labeled as such.)
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:46 PM   #9
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Funny. I'm reading this page without anything from Microsoft.

Maybe if windows 7 is cheap when they get the bugs out I will try it.

Cheap net books with smooth Linux distributions are waking people up to the strides that Linux has made towards ease of use. Apple's resurgence hasn't been good for Microsoft either.
Yep, me too. True, linux is now user frinldy. My mother used my laptop with linux a little. She was a bit lost, but it went fine

But i'm still forced to dual boot windows, mainly because of games. And my nas, who won't be installed with someting else than windows or mac (installing a linux os using windows )
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
1. You do not purchase anything, all product is sold under a revokable license.
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.


Beats me, any thoughts.

Uncle Eric
yep. Thing is, I just wanted an ebook reader, and, while the whispernet was fun for a little while, I haven't used it in ages. I download books thru my computer.

As for 'owning' anything, well, stripping drm takes care of that problem. If you are so inclined. Once that is done, you do 'own' the book, and can read it anywhere.

Amazon can't control anything unless the whispernet is on. Since I no longer care about that particular feature, nor use it, its not a problem.

Should this unit fail, I'll simply transfer my books to another reader. Problem solved.

There are always solutions to problems. Whether you are willing to use them is another question.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estral View Post
Bear with me for a moment.

If Microsoft announced an eReader with the following policies, how would the ePublishing community react?

1. You do not purchase anything, all product is sold under a revokable license.
2. Your reader can be controlled and DISABLED remotely at the discression of the seller
3. Contents can be controlled remotely with features turned on and off at the will of the seller.

If Microsoft did this the sereaming by the publishing and IT communities would be so loud as to be deafening. So why is everyone so quiet about Amazon's policies, which are the ones listed above?

Beats me, any thoughts.

Uncle Eric
You know who else does 1-3? Valve with Steam...

and yet they are hailed as champions against oppressive DRM.

I think a better question is, would Amazon be getting as much flak from nerds if they weren't on top of the pile and if the publishers were doing something worse?

Sony isn't much better and they only open up when they fall behind in market share.

Last edited by Sporadic; 05-18-2009 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:58 PM   #12
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You know who else does 1-3? Valve with Steam...

and yet they are hailed as champions against oppressive DRM.

Steam actually offers services and products which are worth the DRM and so their customers put up with it and defend them. They seem to understand that you need to give back to your customers, not just take and restrict.

Yes, steam.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:55 PM   #13
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Steam actually offers services and products which are worth the DRM and so their customers put up with it and defend them. They seem to understand that you need to give back to your customers, not just take and restrict.

Yes, steam.
Bleh.... Until they up the hardware requirements and force you to upgrade your box (no, you cannot continue to play the games you already paid for....)

Or, until they ban you, without the right to appeal (and again, no, you cannot continue to play the games you already paid for....)

DRM is poison, no matter how they flavor your Kool-aid.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mitchll View Post
Microsoft is in a monopoly position, with a headlock on the market. Amazon is a company with many competitors, who by no means controls the market. If you don't like Amazon's practices, or their prices, you can go elsewhere.
Not exactly true... I don't like owning a Kindle, but that also prohibits me from getting books from their site. So, if I want to make use of their books, I must use their device while my device would be as capable to read those books as their device.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:41 AM   #15
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Not exactly true... I don't like owning a Kindle, but that also prohibits me from getting books from their site. So, if I want to make use of their books, I must use their device while my device would be as capable to read those books as their device.
It's your choice. There are few if any books available only at Amazon. You trade your convenience (desire or whatever) for their method of doing business. It's their game, their rules, but you can play elsewhere. The cost of getting that new book at under ten dollars is using their equipment.
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