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Old 03-12-2009, 01:10 PM   #61
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I use mobidedrm to strip the drm off books I buy from Fictionwise so I can use them on my PRS-505. If I couldn't do that then Fictionwise (And the publisher) just wouldn't see any money from me. And yet I'm breaking the law.

It's madness.
Couldn't have said it better myself. It drives me nuts that I have to crack something I bought just to read it on my own device.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:18 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
I will not be returning my K2 or selling my K1, I still love the Kindle and I will continue to purchase Kindle books.

Will I buy K3? Probably not. Will I continue to be an unpaid salesperson for the Kindle? No. Will I continue to help other Kindle owners? Yes, as much as I possibly can.
I agree. I really enjoy my kindle. But it is some of these tools that increase that enjoyment. I am going to find it hard to recommend the Kindle.

Then again, Amazon owns Mobipocket so pretty much any device that uses mobipocket format.... ARGH!

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Old 03-12-2009, 01:20 PM   #63
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The law on Digitial Rights Management systems and the breaking thereof is not murky at all. Unless you have a valid exemption: it's illegal (unless of course you lie somewhere where it isn't the local rule of law).

The other thing people are shocked by is that Customs does take this stuff [i]very seriously.]/i] Entering the US with a Kindle that has broken ebooks on it could result in prosecution that puts you at risk for up to $250,000 per ebook they find on your Kindle (and possible jail time). If you think I'm kidding just cross the border into the US and declare to them your Kindle is packed with broken ebooks and see what happens.

Ditto for entry to Canada and the EU (although the dollar amounts vary)

Even better: Customs does not need a search warrant. They can demand your Kindle, drag it off behind the scenes and make a copy of the files on it. A few months later you wind up in handcuffs. Even better, the courts are now agreeing that Customs can Fedex you your Kindle later if they need more time to copy it.

Recently various Customs agencies have been copying increasing numbers of digital devices crossing borders in an effort to crack down on trafficking in child pornography. Legally though they are required to report any violations of law they become aware of during an investigation.

That's all cut-and-dry to me. What I find interesting to discuss is:

http://www.amazon.com/Deception/dp/B...6877391&sr=1-1

Does Amazon's DRM system's permissiveness constitute "written permission" as demanded by the statement in the above example ebook? The above ebook demands you only have a single copy of the ebook and can't transfer it to anyone that didn't also purchase the ebook (note: not paper, ebook).

Now that's what I call "murky" and I'd appreciate a statement from Amazon covering it.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:30 PM   #64
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As a new Sony PRS-505 owner, I was coming to the conclusion that the Kindle 2 was a better device and recommending it. It offers enough additional valuable features (not even including Whispernet and the Amazon bookstore), and Calibre now supports mobi. The Sony only had a few things still going for it: size, ADE support, metal construction, card slots, price.

This changes everything.

JSWolf said it succinctly: Amazon owns your *ss.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty1024 View Post
The same laws that protect Mobileread's freedom to publish public domain works also protects Amazon's publisher's rights to control how and where their copyrighted works are published.
That's not true. Copyright is a negative right - preventing certain actions, not "protecting freedom". Without copyright (and hence the DMCA), all works would be "public domain" so MobileRead's ebook library would be even vaster.

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I also suspect your attitude would be highly negative if I backed up a virtual dump truck over in the 10,000+ edition free ebook repository and started scooping up piles of content there and hauling them over to Amazon and putting them up for $.99 each.
I can't speak for MobileRead, but I wouldn't have a problem with you doing that. How would it hurt anyone here?

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Originally Posted by scotty1024 View Post
If you feel a law is too broad in it's powers you work to change the law, you don't break it. Because when you start breaking laws you may discover they protect things you do care about.
Off topic rant:

And if you have no hope of changing a bad law then bad luck? Do you disprove of abolitionists who helped slaves escape from the south or northern officials who disobeyed the Fugitive Slave Act? What about blacks that violated Jim Crow laws? They should have worked to "change the law" while enduring intolerable racism? What about people with debilitating diseases who could receive some relief from medical marijuana? I'm not willing to say they should suffer because of some crummy law.

I'm not saying that copyright is the moral equivalent of the evil laws I mentioned above but I can't stand the claim that one should always follow the law or change it. Even in a democracy people have very little, if any power to change the law. Breaking unjust laws does not lead to the destruction of civilisation and it is sometimes your only option.

Last edited by RobbieClarken; 03-12-2009 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Spoler tag not working
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #66
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Amazon's shooting themselves in the foot.
It will just encourage people to learn how to use the darknet to replace their purchased encrypted copies. Once they learn, some are going to continue to get their books there.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #67
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That can be said for me as well. I will not be buying another Kindle, nor will I be recommending to others that they purchase a Kindle.

I will, instead, warn them that Amazon (1) reserves the right to monitor anything that they place on their Kindle, which includes personal materials that are not subject to DRM, and (2) believes it has the right to control access to all content (even validly purchased content from stores other than Amazon) that is viewed on the Kindle.

I will likely recommend the Sony 505.

You will all have to pardon me if this is all I post today. I have a large amount to write for a client and I can only use my left hand for short periods before it starts hurting.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:44 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic View Post
Scotty,



with all due respect, what gives you the right to insult me? I think I know very well what I "get" and what I "don't", and just because you have a very particular point of view doesn't mean that everyone else here has to agree with you.
I apologize if you feel "insulted" over my statement but I too didn't appreciate your spin on the DMCA take down from Amazon. Having you posting one thread celebrating the power of the public-domain created by copyright law and then reading your thread about using the same law to control distribution with what appears to be a rather sullen tone drove me to comment upon my observations.

But despite your ruffled feathers the irony of your two threads does seem to be escaping you.


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Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic View Post
How do you know? Have you seen the notice? Have you seen our correspondence with their lawyer? Have you talked to Amazon?

They didn't make anything "extremely clear" in the DMCA notice; in fact, they didn't say anything about a Kindle PID.
You can keep claiming things are not clear if you wish but as I've been posting here: in all the ways that matter in terms of property and liberty being taken away from someone, it's very clear. Continuing to try and muddy the waters isn't helping anyone and could very possibly put people in legal peril.

If you wish to be part of the solution in "fixing" the copyright law then you now have a "golden ticket" to do so. You can hire lawyers and fight the DMCA take down notice on grounds the law is screwed and perhaps the Supreme Courts in the EU/US might agree with you.

That DMCA take down notice gives you that ability right now, even after complying with it, you can still use it to try and bring about change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic View Post
There is a difference whether I would have a "highly negative" attitude towards you or whether I send you a DMCA notice through my lawyer.
Right, you're still not getting the irony of your position as a content "distributor" and inveighing against Amazon for exercising their rights. But it seems clear you understood my making the irony more approachable via my example to you.

One might expect a bit more grace when contacted by a fellow distributor to help them out though right? Would you appreciate a similar diatribe from Amazon if you DMCA'd them to take down one of your free editions being sold there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic View Post
I didn't break any law.
Oh I quite agree, it's Igor's shoes I wouldn't want to be in right now. If he's truly living in Belgium these days they could get to him legally, if they chose to do so. I like Igor so I hope he's safe someplace like Russia.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:48 PM   #69
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Scotty, It may have escaped your observant mind, but I am not a US citizen, nor do I live in the US, nor do I have any business in the US. Why should I want to change US laws?

I am not going further into that because I have better ways to spend my time then to argue with a sad fanatic.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:49 PM   #70
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Amazon's shooting themselves in the foot.
It will just encourage people to learn how to use the darknet to replace their purchased encrypted copies. Once they learn, some are going to continue to get their books there.
Amazon? Amazon doesn't own the content: the Right's Holder's do. Amazon is undoubtably acting due to contractual obligations they took upon themselves when they agreed to distribute and collect money for the digital works.

As with iTunes: Apple was not the enemy, DRM came off when the Rights Holders allowed it to happen.

Bashing Amazon here accomplishes nothing except releasing useless heat and light. Tor, Doubleday, Random House... please take the battle to the real supporters of DRM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:51 PM   #71
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I apologize if you feel "insulted" over my statement but I too didn't appreciate your spin on the DMCA take down from Amazon. Having you posting one thread celebrating the power of the public-domain created by copyright law and then reading your thread about using the same law to control distribution with what appears to be a rather sullen tone drove me to comment upon my observations.

But despite your ruffled feathers the irony of your two threads does seem to be escaping you.
Scotty, I've read your first post and I've been reading the responses and finally your "rebuttle" at this point I can safely say all your posts to this thread have been offensive and inflammatory. Alexander did nothing wrong in posting information about why information about the kindlepid.py fix is being removed.

You're the one reading more into the statement than what was already there.

Also, making light of a very real concern for members who do own Kindles just isn't cool. The "ruffled feathers" the "insulted" language isn't exactly helping your case here.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:53 PM   #72
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Bashing Amazon here accomplishes nothing except releasing useless heat and light. Tor, Doubleday, Random House... please take the battle to the real supporters of DRM.
The only person here who is battling is you. If you disagree with everything, for God's sake, why are you still here?


Oops, I forgot.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:55 PM   #73
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Scotty, It may have escaped your observant mind, but I am not a US citizen, nor do I live in the US, nor do I have any business in the US. Why should I want to change US laws?

I am not going further into that because I have ways better ways to spend my time then to argue with a sad fanatic.
I'm saddened to see you descend to name calling there Alex. Usually you are able to defend your intellectual positions, calling me a name and crawling off the field is a bit childish don't you think?

And back when we used to converse by email/PM you did make trips to the US and had a fiance/girlfriend that lived in the US? So why would you want to use the "golden ticket"? I'd say you do have some possible reasons.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #74
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Scotty, this is my last warning. Nowhere did I give you permission to talk about my private life or anything I might have said to you in a private message. If you cannot respect that, please leave Mobileread.

Regarding name calling: Have a look what Fanaticism stands for and you may better understand.
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Old 03-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #75
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The only person here who is battling is you. If you disagree with everything, for God's sake, why are you still here?


Oops, I forgot.
Moi? A troll? More name calling when you can't handle the heat? I'm here standing up precisely because so many folks that appear to be very morally weak on intellectual property are expounding some very questionable and dangerous ideas.

Trolls on the other hand pick fights online for the sole purpose of enjoying the ensuing controversy. Personally I'd love to see Alex sue Amazon over the DMCA take down notice and try to bring about change. But until that happens the law is the law.
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