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Old 02-28-2009, 04:30 PM   #61
michaeli98
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Re-posted.
Thank you very much.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:51 AM   #62
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Well the library will never know if you delete the files or not, so that action alone won't change libraries' behaviour regarding ebooks. Hence their is no rational reason to delete the books unless you think it is morally wrong to keep them or fear that someone might access your harddrive without your permission.
How could you NOT consider it morally wrong to keep a library book?
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:16 AM   #63
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How could you NOT consider it morally wrong to keep a library book?
Because they aren't going to miss it. A few bits of information on my computer will be different but the library is no worse off. This is self evident because they will never even notice whether or not I deleted the book. If my action has no potential to cause anyone harm then I don't consider it morally wrong.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:23 AM   #64
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Because they aren't going to miss it. A few bits of information on my computer will be different but the library is no worse off. This is self evident because they will never even notice whether or not I deleted the book. If my action has no potential to cause anyone harm then I don't consider it morally wrong.
Sorry, but I disagree with you vehemently. The library has bought the book on the basis that it will be "loaned" to readers, not permanently kept. If you keep it, that is just as bad a downloading a copy of it illegally. It's a matter of trust - libraries do not exist to GIVE you books, but to LOAN them to you. If you violate that trust, you're putting the entire library eBook system at risk, and reinforcing the idea that users are all criminals who will steal if given half a chance. You damage everybody by doing this, and merely strengthen the idea in the minds of publishers that DRM systems are necessary.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:58 AM   #65
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If you violate that trust, you're putting the entire library eBook system at risk, and reinforcing the idea that users are all criminals who will steal if given half a chance. You damage everybody's reputation for the sake of your own personal greed.
My point is that this argument only applies if the library or someone else is able to learn that you didn't delete the book. If everyone was to start bragging about how they are downloading and not deleting library ebooks then that could change the behaviour of libraries and publishers for the worse. But that is a separate issue to whether or not you hit the delete key (if you are going to keep your mouth shut about it).

Edit: One thing I do agree with you about is that if someone signs a contract with the library that stipulates they mustn't permanently download ebooks then they should keep their promise not to do this (even if the library would never learn what they do).

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Old 03-01-2009, 05:01 AM   #66
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I'm afraid I consider that to be utterly immoral. But we must agree to differ.
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:09 AM   #67
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But we must agree to differ.
Agreed. When it comes to these issues I don't think people will ever change their positions, but I do find the discussions interesting.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:51 AM   #68
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Edit: One thing I do agree with you about is that if someone signs a contract with the library that stipulates they mustn't permanently download ebooks then they should keep their promise not to do this (even if the library would never learn what they do).
That is precisely my point: it's a breach of trust to "borrow" a book and then permanently keep it. Whether or not anyone "knows" that one has done so is irrelevent, at least in my code of ethics.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:51 AM   #69
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I'm afraid I consider that to be utterly immoral. But we must agree to differ.
I have to agree with Harry on this. When I saw people's reactions to this tool were: "Oh I'm sooo going to exploit my local library to get free books!", shivers went down my spine.

That's not the point of INEPT. The point is freeing yourself from the DRM imposed on your lawful purchases, not using it to get free books.
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:55 AM   #70
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I have to agree. If you don't financially support the authors you enjoy, there will come a point in time that they won't write books for you to enjoy. There's nothing wrong with using decryption tools to preserve your own library, but to download the library books and keep those forever? I think it will eventually serve to hurt the entire publishing eco system.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:07 AM   #71
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If people use the tool to comvert to other format to be able to read the books then the reasonable response from libraries is to make the books available in more formats.

I am also a bit surpised that people seem to make a distinction between removinge DRM from library books and downloading books from the darknet. If you are going to break the rules why not just download the book from the darknet?
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:11 AM   #72
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I am also a bit surpised that people seem to make a distinction between removinge DRM from library books and downloading books from the darknet. If you are going to break the rules why not just download the book from the darknet?
You're absolutely right. There is no distinction.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:22 AM   #73
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If you are going to break the rules why not just download the book from the darknet?
Because not all books are shared on the "darknet"?
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:41 AM   #74
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If people use the tool to comvert to other format to be able to read the books then the reasonable response from libraries is to make the books available in more formats.
To the best of my knowledge, only the Adobe and MobiPocket DRM systems offer the capability of "time limiting". Even with your "DRM is evil" viewpoint, would you not accept that this is a legitimate use for DRM?

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I am also a bit surpised that people seem to make a distinction between removinge DRM from library books and downloading books from the darknet. If you are going to break the rules why not just download the book from the darknet?
I see absolutely no difference.
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:03 AM   #75
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Because not all books are shared on the "darknet"?
Let's back up a bit... you would de-DRM a library book and keep it only if you couldn't find one to steal from the darknet? Basically, you'd buy a book only if you couldn't illegaly acquire it from somewhere else?
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