Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Uploads - Patricia Clark Memorial Library > Upload Help

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-02-2009, 10:48 AM   #1
mtravellerh
book creator
mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
mtravellerh's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,626
Karma: 1723914
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Device: PB360°
Biased books

A problem has risen up for me that seems not to have been discussed before: politically biased books. Not only do some of the authors happily state their political or moral views, but some of them are openly hostile versus females, other nations and other races, some of these views making me embarrassed even to read them. Now I assemble them and upload them so my name is linked with those oeuvres and I am somewhat identified with them.

What can I do? Obviously we live in freecountries, so censorship is out of the question. Should I attach a caution label to those books? Just leave them the way they are and trust the readers to be mature enough to discern the biased views from the entertainment? This really does upset me to a certain point. Help and advise would be highly appreciated.

(Examples: Henty, Ballantyne, Optic, Kingston to name but a few)
mtravellerh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 10:55 AM   #2
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,489
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtravellerh View Post
A problem has risen up for me that seems not to have been discussed before: politically biased books. Not only do some of the authors happily state their political or moral views, but some of them are openly hostile versus females, other nations and other races, some of these views making me embarrassed even to read them. Now I assemble them and upload them so my name is linked with those oeuvres and I am somewhat identified with them.

What can I do? Obviously we live in freecountries, so censorship is out of the question. Should I attach a caution label to those books? Just leave them the way they are and trust the readers to be mature enough to discern the biased views from the entertainment? This really does upset me to a certain point. Help and advise would be highly appreciated.

(Examples: Henty, Ballantyne, Optic, Kingston to name but a few)
I'd suggest leaving them as they are. People are mature enough (one hopes!) to realise that a book is the product of the culture in which it was written, and that (to name but one example) 19th century attitudes to black people were very different from those which we'd consider acceptable today.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:04 AM   #3
zelda_pinwheel
zeldinha zippy zeldissima
zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.zelda_pinwheel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
zelda_pinwheel's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,828
Karma: 908606
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Paris, France
Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?
you raise an interesting point. these old pd books were written in a dramatically different social context and things which shock us were considered perfectly normal (the role of women, the attitude towards different races, etc. as you mention). i think that it is interesting and useful for us to read these books in keeping this perspective in mind, from a sociological point of view, to remember that society has evolved and see to see this evolution.

if you feel uncomfortable with some of these views (although, since you did not write them, you are not responsible for them) it might be a good idea to mention in your description of the book that they contain examples of some very outdated values which you do not endorse, and to keep that in mind while reading them.

however, i don't think there is any reason for you to feel uncomfortable (although if you find a really extreme example which you are too uncomfortable with, you can of course choose not to publish it) : i think it's very important for us to see examples of this precisely because it's important to remember how things used to be ; this can help us more clearly understand our current society and how we got here, and also help us to be more enlightened ourselves by being confronted with viewpoints which might make us uncomfortable in a contemporary setting. "he who does not remember history, is doomed to repeat it."

this is a very common dilemma and one i think it's good to be aware of ; the Tintin books are considered classic children's comic books today and they are really a treasure i think. however some of them present quite shockingly racist (by our standards today) stories and attitudes. when we read them, we should think "oh my, look how racist our society was at the time these were written ; look how we have changed our perspective since then," and even examine why people had these opinions at the time and how they shaped many historical events, rather than thinking "oh, Hergé thought africans were a bunch of monkeys, they must really be so."
zelda_pinwheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:18 AM   #4
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,489
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
the Tintin books are considered classic children's comic books today and they are really a treasure i think. however some of them present quite shockingly racist (by our standards today) stories and attitudes. when we read them, we should think "oh my, look how racist our society was at the time these were written ; look how we have changed our perspective since then," and even examine why people had these opinions at the time and how they shaped many historical events, rather than thinking "oh, Hergé thought africans were a bunch of monkeys, they must really be so."
I completely agree, Zelda. Another example are the "Dr. Thorndyke" detective stories of R.A. Freeman. Excellent stories, but they contain some quite shockingly crude (by today's standards) stereotypes of Jewish characters. Unfortunately, anti-Semitism was rife in the society in which Freeman grew up (late 19th and early 20th century Britain), and he is reflecting the views of that society.

Your point about using such things as an example of how our views have changed is, I think, a very well-made one.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:19 AM   #5
mtravellerh
book creator
mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
mtravellerh's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,626
Karma: 1723914
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Device: PB360°
Racist or not, I was quite shocked by Kingston's statement in "Afar in the Forest" to the point that his "heroes" shoot "savages" on sight just for good riddance and seem to find that quite normal. That "IS" shocking.
mtravellerh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:25 AM   #6
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,489
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtravellerh View Post
Racist or not, I was quite shocked by Kingston's statement in "Afar in the Forest" to the point that his "heroes" shoot "savages" on sight just for good riddance and seem to find that quite normal. That "IS" shocking.
Unfortunately, mtravellerh, it was the prevalent attitude of the time that black Africans were "sub-human".

H. Rider Haggard who, as I'm sure you know, wrote many African adventure stories, was widely criticised during his lifetime for his "reactionary" attitude that African peoples should be permitted to govern their own affairs. The prevailing attitude at the time, certainly in Britain, was to treat them like "children" and believe that they were "better off" being ruled by the European colonial powers.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:34 AM   #7
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,400
Karma: 1358102
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
It's interesting to speculate which attitudes of ours will shock our grandchildren.
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:36 AM   #8
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,489
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
It's interesting to speculate which attitudes of ours will shock our grandchildren.
Our profligate use of limited natural resources (eg oil) would be a strong candidate.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:57 AM   #9
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,316
Karma: 4963983
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
We should also consider that the "offensive" views and attitudes in fiction novels are not always the author's but the characters'. Of course, it is often a product of the time and society, and the author is usually with the characters in this matters...
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:58 AM   #10
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,144
Karma: 4315826
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
This is a case were it is important that the copyright year for the book is available in the beginning of the book.
tompe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 12:04 PM   #11
mtravellerh
book creator
mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mtravellerh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
mtravellerh's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,626
Karma: 1723914
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Luxembourg
Device: PB360°
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
This is a case were it is important that the copyright year for the book is available in the beginning of the book.
I fail to see your point.
mtravellerh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 12:18 PM   #12
lilac_jive
Grand Sorcerer
lilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud of
 
lilac_jive's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,871
Karma: 27376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: PRS-505
I think warnings in the book description would suffice.
lilac_jive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 12:43 PM   #13
pshrynk
Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah!
pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pshrynk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pshrynk's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,721
Karma: 5533402
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox
Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtravellerh View Post
I fail to see your point.
It would allow the reader to know when it was written and apply the appropriate filters to understand what the author's mind set may have been, culturally.
pshrynk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 01:06 PM   #14
Patricia
Reader
Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Patricia ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Patricia's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,509
Karma: 2199070
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Wales, UK
Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G
I tend to add a cautionary note in the post if I'm uploading anything particularly controversial.

I always add the note if the author uses the N***** word to refer to black people.

We've had some trouble with book titles. I converted Ronald Firbank's "Sorrow in Sunlight" using this (the original) English title. In the USA the book was released as "The Prancing N*****."
HarryT was hesitant about uploading Joseph Conrad's "The N***** of the Narcissus" under the original title, and found that it had also been issued as "The Children of the Sea" so went for that.
And surely no one will ever publish Agatha Christie's "Ten Little N******"" again. It's been appearing lately as "And Then There Were None."

I don't feel bad about uploading occasional controversial works, but often do the opposing point of view, to redress the balance. So I do both religious and atheist works; both classical liberalism and anarchism and marxism etc.
Patricia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 01:44 PM   #15
lilac_jive
Grand Sorcerer
lilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud oflilac_jive has much to be proud of
 
lilac_jive's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,871
Karma: 27376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: PRS-505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia View Post
I tend to add a cautionary note in the post if I'm uploading anything particularly controversial.

I always add the note if the author uses the N***** word to refer to black people.

We've had some trouble with book titles. I converted Ronald Firbank's "Sorrow in Sunlight" using this (the original) English title. In the USA the book was released as "The Prancing N*****."
HarryT was hesitant about uploading Joseph Conrad's "The N***** of the Narcissus" under the original title, and found that it had also been issued as "The Children of the Sea" so went for that.
And surely no one will ever publish Agatha Christie's "Ten Little N******"" again. It's been appearing lately as "And Then There Were None."

I don't feel bad about uploading occasional controversial works, but often do the opposing point of view, to redress the balance. So I do both religious and atheist works; both classical liberalism and anarchism and marxism etc.
And that's why you are awesome, Patricia
lilac_jive is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Noobs Guide to Borrowing E-Library Books and Installing non Kobo Bookstore Books bamelin Kobo Reader 17 01-07-2012 05:11 PM
Two free books (kobo) from Francesca Lia Block [BOOKS DELETED BY AUTHOR] koland Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 11 04-08-2010 07:03 AM
MobileRead Biased? GhostHawk Feedback 7 01-23-2010 03:51 AM
My biased thoughts on the PRS-300, PRS-600, Kindle, and how I ended up with a 505 nvarsj Sony Reader 8 10-29-2009 08:46 AM
Author's gender: are you biased? Over Lounge 69 05-21-2009 01:21 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.