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Old 12-02-2008, 11:41 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by rsdavis9 View Post
So to summarize. To purchase ebooks from amazon.

You have to have a kindle pid which you get from a kindle serial number which you have to buy a kindle to get?
There isn't anyway around this? Like faking the serial number? Finding kindle serial number's someplace on the web?

I have a prs-505 and would like the option of purchasing ebooks from amazon without paying $350 dollars for a kindle which I probably won't use.

bob
No, there is no way around this...Amazon will not let you purchase kindle books unless there is a kindle registered to your account. So even if you did "find" or "fake" some serial numbers, that does nothing for you as far as having a kindle registered to your account.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dave Berk View Post

Also, is there a way to find, before buying, if the book I want to buy is azw, aw1, or tpz? What's the difference between these formats?
Downloading the samples will show you. AZW is the default. AZW1/TPZ are different and allow for embedded fonts. The TPZ books I've seen so far look like they were scanned in and had marks and such like you would see when photocopying.

The other way to tell before purchasing that I've seen is:

When browsing on Amazon site using your PC, if the description of the ebook contains both page numbers AND file size, it is usually AZW. If it does not contain file size information, only lists page numbers, then it is usually AZW1/TPZ. This does not work when searching from the Kindle itself on the Amazon store and the info doesn't seem to get listed.
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Old 12-02-2008, 01:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rsdavis9 View Post
There isn't anyway around this? Like faking the serial number? Finding kindle serial number's someplace on the web?
Nope.

1. You can only register valid Kindle S/Ns.
2. You can't register the same S/N to more than one account.

Perhaps you can advertise "wanted broken Kindle"... or something and you can register it if you can fine one. But, buying from Fictionwise makes a bit more sense. You might pay a few extra dollars for some books, but you save $350.

BOb
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.
I would gladly purchase the books I want to read in other formats, since I do not own, and do not want a kindle.

It's funny that Dave Berk specifically mentions books I want to read in this post, because I'm looking to do the very same thing he is.

I desperately want to be able to read ebooks on my preferred reader, not Amazon's preferred reader, and I'm perfectly willing to buy them, but not if I can only read them on the kindle.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Leep View Post
Proprietary products and services are part of maintaining a business model.
This is true, but an intrinsic part of every proprietary format is the market created for unlocking it. See printer the printer cartridge refill market for example (HP printer ink is more expensive than human blood).

I am very eagerly awaiting a place where I can buy any ebook I want without the prerequisite of owning a Kindle. And I'm willing to pay for it.
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynoclast View Post
This is true, but an intrinsic part of every proprietary format is the market created for unlocking it. See printer the printer cartridge refill market for example (HP printer ink is more expensive than human blood).

I am very eagerly awaiting a place where I can buy any ebook I want without the prerequisite of owning a Kindle. And I'm willing to pay for it.
Try looking in the wiki http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_stores

Dale
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.
Wow ... I really disagree with that statement. No surprise in that, I guess. It's bad for reading in general that people have to pay a bookstore (or live near a library) in order to get access to books. All books should be absolutely free ... that's what's good for reading.

Oh, wait ... that's not very good for authors. No one would be paying them any royalties. So then authors wouldn't write and that wouldn't be good for reading.

Hmmmm .... and naturally Sony should not be able to have any books that are in a proprietary format either. No one should buy a Sony reader until they stop trying to make money .... it's not supposed to be a business, dammit!!

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Old 12-10-2008, 05:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
Wow ... I really disagree with that statement. No surprise in that, I guess. It's bad for reading in general that people have to pay a bookstore (or live near a library) in order to get access to books. All books should be absolutely free ... that's what's good for reading.

Oh, wait ... that's not very good for authors. No one would be paying them any royalties. So then authors wouldn't write and that wouldn't be good for reading.

Hmmmm .... and naturally Sony should not be able to have any books that are in a proprietary format either. No one should buy a Sony reader until they stop trying to make money .... it's not supposed to be a business, dammit!!

Electronics and the internet are just new things that the market is still adapting to.

Look at the timeline of information encapsulation and note that every single one of these is a method of recording information for distribution:
  1. Hand copied books - ludicrously expensive, being nothing but a scribe was a well paid profession.
  2. printed books - much cheaper, but still expensive, few homes had any, only the weathly had a "library"
  3. recorded music/spoken word (wax cylinders) - very expensive, specialized machinery required to perform it, and to produce copies
  4. recorded video (reel to reel) - see above
  5. recorded video with audio (reel to reel) - see above
I'll skip the description of all of the intervening formats from laserdisc (I own several!) to Blu-Ray here, but you get the idea.
Throw in an honorable mention for mp3s and audio/video encoding, and ebooks. Add the internet and watch the bottom follow out of the information encapsulation market.

You'll notice that with each step, the cost of producing copies goes down.

Naturally, artistic works, such as movies, music and books still have value, but due to technological advancements, the value of the recordings have progressively gone down with no end in sight.

What we're seeing these days with DRM, lawsuits, the DMCA, etc. is an attempt by those with a vested interest in selling things comprised mostly of what in this day and age is artificial scarcity to preserve the viability of nearly obsolete business models by criminalizing any attempt to cut out the middle man. Nothing more.

To me, their efforts appear no more sane than saying we should all still be paying scribes to copy books for us by hand, and getting fined or thrown in jail for attempting to create a printing press.

It's obvious to anyone with a lick of common sense that all the laws we have protecting Intellectual (Imaginary) Property were created not in the public interest, but for the sole purpose of attempting to maintain the profitability of some outmoded business models.

While I disagree with all of their efforts philosophically, I don't blame them for trying, but let's just say I wouldn't invest in any industry that relies on artificial scarcity of information. They can subvert the legal system to their advantage all they like, but you can't stop billions of people from doing anything.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynoclast View Post
Electronics and the internet are just new things that the market is still adapting to.

Look at the timeline of information encapsulation and note that every single one of these is a method of recording information for distribution:
  1. Hand copied books - ludicrously expensive, being nothing but a scribe was a well paid profession.
  2. printed books - much cheaper, but still expensive, few homes had any, only the weathly had a "library"
  3. recorded music/spoken word (wax cylinders) - very expensive, specialized machinery required to perform it, and to produce copies
  4. recorded video (reel to reel) - see above
  5. recorded video with audio (reel to reel) - see above
I'll skip the description of all of the intervening formats from laserdisc (I own several!) to Blu-Ray here, but you get the idea.
Throw in an honorable mention for mp3s and audio/video encoding, and ebooks. Add the internet and watch the bottom follow out of the information encapsulation market.

You'll notice that with each step, the cost of producing copies goes down.

Naturally, artistic works, such as movies, music and books still have value, but due to technological advancements, the value of the recordings have progressively gone down with no end in sight.

What we're seeing these days with DRM, lawsuits, the DMCA, etc. is an attempt by those with a vested interest in selling things comprised mostly of what in this day and age is artificial scarcity to preserve the viability of nearly obsolete business models by criminalizing any attempt to cut out the middle man. Nothing more.

To me, their efforts appear no more sane than saying we should all still be paying scribes to copy books for us by hand, and getting fined or thrown in jail for attempting to create a printing press.

It's obvious to anyone with a lick of common sense that all the laws we have protecting Intellectual (Imaginary) Property were created not in the public interest, but for the sole purpose of attempting to maintain the profitability of some outmoded business models.

While I disagree with all of their efforts philosophically, I don't blame them for trying, but let's just say I wouldn't invest in any industry that relies on artificial scarcity of information. They can subvert the legal system to their advantage all they like, but you can't stop billions of people from doing anything.
Keep in mind that it used to be difficult to mass produce copies of any given work. Even if you made a cassette tape of some songs off of several albums, and then copied those tapes, you lost most of the fidelity over time. The music became more and more degraded.

Same thing even back when you had scribes ... it was expensive to employ a scribe and it took one hell of a long time to make each copy.

Now we come to the digital age. And, what do we have ... just an extremely easy way to make flawless copies of books, music, even some artwork, and to distribute them all over the world with a single click.

Of course the legal distribution chain is scared as all hell. What they need to realize is that if they come up with an inexpensive and fairly uniform method of distribution, people will buy into it without resorting to theft.

I like to think that they will eventually come to that conclusion as they see other companies that use that model being successful with it.

However, I don't believe that massive theft through file sharing is a way to create anything except a reactive reflex in the form of tighter DRM restrictions.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
Of course the legal distribution chain is scared as all hell. What they need to realize is that if they come up with an inexpensive and fairly uniform method of distribution, people will buy into it without resorting to theft.
I'm glad we agree. I deliberately purchased the last album I bought was from amazon because the MP3s were DRM free. Before that, I bought albums from NIN after they ditched their label. Not that I download the rest or anything, I have extremely narrow tastes in music, so for me to seek out something new is unbelievably rare. I consciously and deliberately support business models that steer clear of DRM and embrace modern technology because I want to help it along.
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
However, I don't believe that massive theft through file sharing is a way to create anything except a reactive reflex in the form of tighter DRM restrictions.
But you really need to stop calling copyright infringement stealing/theft. One is literally, infringing upon the owner's sole right to copy something. The other is deliberately and permanently depriving the owner of a piece of physical property. Two, very very different acts.
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